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Let's talk about Ohio... NOW!

Joan Bokaer	print page
Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 07:50:15 AM EST

Ohio has been described by Rod Parsley, Reverend of a megachurch outside Columbus, as an apocalyptic clash between "the forces of righteousness and the hordes of hell."

A new bill will be voted on by the Ohio legislature, possibly this week, to insure that the "forces of righteousness" hold onto political power indefinetly.

If the bill passes, it would eliminate oversight of voting machines (Diebold),
and would cancel anyone's right to challenge election results.

A minister and divinity student are staging vigils and a hunger strike in Ohio and deserve our support.

Democracy is in the balance, and Ohio is the battleground. To read more about Ohio, the Patriot Pastors, the Reverend Rod Parsley, and Ohio's voting machines, click here.

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Let's talk about Ohio... NOW! | 19 comments (18 topical, 0 hidden)

Under the radar (none / 0)

I have noticed a distinct lack of reportage about the struggle in Ohio, and this bothers me. Why is this? Isn't this important? Don't people care what is happening?

I am angered that these self-righteous people would dare call me and people who wish to be citizens rather than mere serfs or slaves 'the hordes of hell'. Last time I checked, I was a human being, not some slavering beast or demon.

We have to call them on their lies and bullying, and loudly. We have to fire up our own outrage and run them off, and keep them away. They are using the very freedoms we fought long and hard for to take those freedoms away. Who is going to stand up to them? Why isn't anyone accusing them of sedition, treason, or even terrorism?

by Lorie Johnson on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 08:54:31 AM EST

This has discussed at length on the Daily Kos.... (none / 0)

And not in especial depth on the front front : on the diaries.

Ohio risks being the death of Democracy.

This might be a good time to air the hostility of Reconstructionist theologians towards Democracy.

by Bruce Wilson on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 09:30:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Okay, so I'm NOT the only one who's noticed (none / 0)

Yes, I've been hearing a deafening silence on this myself, and it does worry me because the Ohio Restoration Movement (via Vision America--listed in the "Religious Right" groups from this site) is trying to push this agenda on a national basis.

Texas Freedom Network has some excellent reporting on Texas Restoration Movement (a sister group to the Ohio group.

One possible angle of attack that I've not seen mentioned yet--fighting World Harvest Church's tax exempt status (there IS talk of doing just that in Ohio, but in part because tax exemptions are handled by both the Attorney-General and Secretary of State--and the latter is in fact the dominionist candidate Ohio Restoration Project is trying to get into office--most of the attack will need to be on federal levels and with the Attorney-General's office).

In fact, there could be a legitimate case for possible collusion (seeing as the Secretary of State is being promoted frankly as a dominionist candidate by Ohio Restoration Project and World Harvest Church, and the Secretary of State is also one of the two individuals in charge of enforcing tax laws involving charities).

One other angle of attack is to file formal complaint with the Ohio Elections Commission: there is an online form at this site, and due to the possible collusion of the Secretary of State I would recommend strongly that voting monitors be in place if at all possible.

by dogemperor on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 12:35:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Through the Courts (none / 0)

I am disinclined to advocate using the courts to block these types of moves unless they can be combined with a public-relations movement going on at the same time.

I believe that a significant cause of the current malady is that those who have been opposed to theocracy have depended on the courts to protect us, instead of going to the people. While we have used the courts, the theocrats have gone to the people and have created a base whereby they can dismantle the court protections we have relied upon.

It is necessary, I believe, to take the battle primarily to the people, with court action being a concurrent but secondary line of attack.

Unless one can convince the people that this is the right thing to do, then using government action will only unite the opposition to limit the government's power in ways that we will no longer be able to use that same government action again.
Alonzo Fyfe

The Atheist Ethicist
by Alonzo Fyfe on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 02:49:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

: I'd argue BOTH are important (none / 0)

My main concern is that--in conjunction with known irregularities with the Diebold voting equipment in Ohio in particular (Diebold literally promised to "win Ohio for Bush", among other things) and due to the state trying to make it more difficult if not impossible to challenge a potentially fraudulent result, we have no real guarantee of an election win even if the majority of people vote against the dominionists.
Personally, I think that we should both a) get people "mad as hell", so mad they'll vote the dominionists out (and we do this by education), and do a bit of offense as well by "kneecapping" the dominionist groups pushing for dominionist candidates (hence the bit about World Harvest Center's tax exempt status--if their tax exempt is yanked, they lose a LOT of power, as the dominionist movement may lose a major source of funding and electioneering will be MUCH more difficult because if they ever do get their tax exempt status back they'd be on "double secret probation"--it's the tax troubles that eventually neutered the Christian Coaltion, remember, because they lost their tax exempt status for years); we also do a bit of our own "trust and verify" so that if there IS any documentable hanky-panky on election day we can c) get the people even madder by showing them explicitly how dominionists stole their votes.
(There is already quite a bit of controversy regarding electronic voting and how Diebold voting machines in particular may have given fraudulent results. I actually DO think it's important to emphasize this because there is some preliminary evidence (via exit polls and the like) this could have happened with the Presidential election in Ohio in particular, so it's not like it's an unknown issue. The fact that the dominionist groups are not only pushing for Ohio to be turned into the Republic of Gilead (a la Margaret Atwood's "The Handmaid's Tale") but are actively doing everything they can legally to make it next to impossible to challenge a potentially fraudulent or flawed elections process is one of those things we need to get the people Mad As Hell about IMHO.

by dogemperor on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 09:15:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Joan (none / 0)

What exactly is the connection between the religious right and this partiuclar bill in the Ohio legislature?

by Frederick Clarkson on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 03:54:34 PM EST

Ohio bill and dominionism conncection (none / 0)

Glad you asked, Fred.

If you want to witness dominionism in action, study Ohio. I suggest we all focus on that strategically located state. To understand what's happening in Ohio, read Bill Berkowitz article Ohio players or the article about Reverend Rod Parsley in this month's American Prospect.

Then go to the Free Press to learn about some strange irregularities with Ohio's electronic voting in the recent (Nov. '05) election.

Once you get a picture of what's happening in Ohio, you will probably ask yourself "why is the legislature planning to pass a bill that would eliminate oversight of voting machines,
and would cancel any right to challenge election results?"

The answer that comes to my mind is that the dominionists don't want to be voted out of power, and they very well might be voted out in fair and open elections.

For a compendium of articles on Ohio, click here.

by Joan Bokaer on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 05:06:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am generally familiar with the situation in Ohio (none / 0)

And I have written a bit about the religous right in Ohio, including Rev. Parsley.

Over on the daily kos, there is a saying that "a link is not a diary." That's short hand for saying that it is the job of the writer to make the case, not to send the readers off to try to figure it all out for themselves.

This comes into play here, I am sorry to say, because just be sure, I went back and read Berkowitz' article which I had read when it came out, and the American Prospect piece and the the Free Press piece.

If there is any relationship between the bill currently before the legislature and the religious right, it is not to be found in these articles.

by Frederick Clarkson on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 05:32:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Reply to Fred (none / 0)

I agree with the Reverend Parsley when he said that the 2006 election in Ohio is "A battle between the forces of righteousness and the hordes of hell." I see the "forces of righteousness" as the forces of theocracy, and the hordes of hell as the forces of a pluralistic Democracy.

Fred, you helped us see this stuggle. Your book, Eternal Hostility is about "the struggle between theocracy and Democracy." Eight years after the publication of your book, that struggle seems to be playing itself out most graphically in Ohio. So when the Ohio legislature comes up with a bill to strip the voters of the right to challenge elections -- at a time when Ohio's elections have been heavily criticized -- it appears to me that the theocrats want to sabotage the foundation of Democracy -- one man one vote -- to insure that they stay in power.

Am I making a leap of logic? Maybe.

by Joan Bokaer on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 08:17:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

thanks, Joan (none / 0)

seeing things clearly, and persuading is still the same. They require facts.

While it may be a fair assumption that the religious right has a role in the bill, and might benefit from it, it is not at all clear to me that this is in fact the case from any info I have seen.

The corrupt business wing of the party represented by Taft is not necessarily the same as the religious right. In fact, I would wager that in this election cycle they will be running, in some respects, against it.

by Frederick Clarkson on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 09:19:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

: informational questions for Joan or others (none / 0)

Fred, I appreciate your asking the questions that came to me when I read the diary.
Joan, dogemperor, and others following the Ohio situation closely:
Who is the sponsor of the Ohio legislation? Main cosponsors? Bill number?
Is there any online information about the bill?Virginia's legislature has an excellent, open Thomas-like way to track pending bills; I'm not assuming Ohio does, but if so, and given the importance of the state, such links would be very handy as 2006 nears. Is the Ohio legislature year-round?
What connections, if any, are there between the sponsors and any of the dominionist entitites active in Ohio?
Who in the legislature is actively opposing the bill? Has it become a partisan battle, or is there the possibility of cross-party alliance on the issue?

by Nell on Sat Dec 24, 2005 at 01:21:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We need all the help we can get! (none / 0)

Thanks for putting this up Joan. It's vital. The Free Press and Prospect articles are particularly good.

As for the nexus - for those outside this state - it's Ken Blackwell, the Secretary of State. He's joined at the hip(s) with Diebold and Rev. Parsley. Blackwell is the one who delivered Ohio for Bush in 2004 when there were glaring voting irregularities. Parsley takes care of the pulpit electioneering, the GOTV, and lobbying the legislature.

Given the multiple scandals in Ohio this year, the GOP is in deep trouble. They'd have a rough time in '06. If this bill passes, no one else will have a chance. We worked hard to pass election reform issues in '05. They were all voted down - again under very suspicious circumstances although their complexity and the fact that the ODP sucks didn't help.

It should also be noted that Blackwell is running for Governor against a very strong Democratic candidate, Ted Strickland, a successful and respected current US Representative. As a former Methodist minister, Ted has wide appeal in both red and blue parts of the state. So...the only way Blackwell can insure a win is by setting things up so that elections can't be monitored properly.

by Psyche on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 05:54:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Forgot to mention.. (none / 0)

Unlike most dominionists groups, Parsley's congregation is about 40% African-American so he has far more clout with Black pastors than is the norm. And his reach extends far beyond Columbus through his involvement with the Ohio Restoration Project and it's "Patriot Pastors." They've been extraordinarily successful in mounting opposition to same sex marriage in Ohio, successfully supporting an issue that is far more restrictive that that in most states.

They haven't stopped there. The latest foray, in the wake of the Schiavo debacle, is into the realm of end-of-life decision-making. I was recently asked by a state advocacy group to review a draft of legislation that would overturn existing laws for priority of consent in surrogate decision-making.

These people are dangerous!

by Psyche on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 06:57:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

: re "end of life" directives (none / 0)

That's actually going to be the next major push (and in some areas IS starting to be the next major push already) with dominionists--extending "conscience clauses" (that in many states legally allow pharmacists to refuse to dispense any medication--mostly birth control, but scattered reports of refusal to give antiherpetic drugs as well--and in two states are so broad as to potentially allow an EMT to refuse lifesaving treatment to someone who was gay or pagan) to end-of-life directives.
Specifically, they want to make it where a doctor, nurse, or even hospital can legally and without any penalty whatsoever refuse to carry out instructions in a living will or power of attorney agreement that would "conflict with their moral choices"--in other words, if you had a condition in your living will or had instructed the person you named in your power-of-attorney document that stated if you were ever in a hopeless vegetative state (a la Terri Schiavo) they could legally disregard any instructions to "pull the plug".
This worries me a great deal, as I am a walkaway from a dominionist group that is right in the middle of the "pro-life" movement in Kentucky and has been fighting to extend "conscience clauses" far beyond where they are in the state (right now they only extend to doctors, nurses and the Catholic hospital system and only for surgical abortion).
I live in legitmate fear that my family may try to actively subvert my wishes were I ever in a persistent vegetative state. I even live in legitimate fear that if I am in hospital they will try to prosyletise to me against my will (my mother has had a habit of "inviting" the head pastor to the deathbeds or sickbeds of each and every one of my relatives who has been either hospitalised or terminally ill to "pray over them" and try to browbeat them into a deathbed conversion, and has even forced relatives into having the pastor of her (large, dominionist, with aspirations of worldwide televangelism empires) church giving the funeral services when it would have been against the wishes of the person who died. (Yes, I am now researching what I can do legally to prevent this, and I am aware with certain aspects I may have to draw up an agreement with a lawyer.)
Right now (from the best of what I have been able to gather) my best shot of avoiding Dominionist Interference with both my wishes should I end up in hospital, and my dying and after-death wishes, are threefold:
a) set up an affiliation with a Unitarian Universalist church in my area re my "religious preferences" if I am in hospital (I am actually going to contact a lawyer to see if there's anything further that can be done, like "Nobody from X church is to pester me if I am in hospital")
b) Living will or power of attorney agreement, with PoA or executrix power with husband and in event of his death lawyer, not only denoting my end-of-life directives but specifically prohibiting any interference or involvement by members of the dominionist group I walked away from or any other group they are affiliated with
c) Last will and testament, including prepaid funeral, giving specific directives and again specifically prohibiting involvement by members of the dominionist group I walked away from at any stage
Right now, legally, I might be able to (hopefully!) prevent the dominionists in my family--or in the church my family attends--from going against my wishes.
If "conscience clauses" are expanded to include being able to disregard living wills, power-of-attorney agreements, et al and/or they are expanded to people beyond doctors and nurses (judges, for example), all bets are off. I may as well mail myself in a box to Belgium and declare political asylum if I end up with a terminal illness. :P

by dogemperor on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 09:39:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly (none / 0)

This is part of why I say that challenging a potentially fraudulent election (and I do NOT put it past the dominionists to pull exactly that--there is evidence that not only voter intimidation but potential voting fraud involving the Diebold voting machines themselves may have occured in Ohio, based on the massive difference between final vote and exit poll results) is going to be problematic at best and we need to get people Mad As Hell about it now.

Blackwell is the dominionists' candidate (and actively connected to the Ohio Restoration Movement); he is also the Secretary of State for Ohio.

This is problematic on two areas--firstly, the Secretary of State certifies voting results in Ohio (as previously mentioned; Blackwell has ties to both the Ohio Restoration Movement and Diebold).

Secondly (and this is probably the one reason World Harvest Center hasn't yet had its tax exempt yanked by the state), the duties for enforcement of electioneering law regarding nonprofits is a joint responsibility of the Attorney-General and...the Secretary of State.

I'll be honest in that I do have legitimate concerns (both because of Blackwell being the major decision maker regarding elections and election law in Ohio, and because of his known connections to both Diebold and the Ohio Restoration Movement--the latter as their preferred candidate) as to whether it is even possible for a free and fair election to occur in Ohio. There is evidence there was deliberate interference in 2004, and I don't discount the possibility in 2006--and the dominionist groups are making it even harder to legally challenge an elections result than it was in 2004. (The fact that Diebold refuses to give out any source code to their machines--even though third parties have proven that the machines are inherently insecure--does nothing to reassure one in this.)

This is why I push "Get Mad As Hell", prepare to legally challenge where necessary, and get people watching to make good and damned sure that if anything funny is tried that forty distinct and separate kinds of holy hell are raised about it.

by dogemperor on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 09:23:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

: Precisely! (none / 0)

Ohio is a frustrating place to live in these days. We've already been invaded by the dominionists. I was poll-watching for the '04 election when suburban voters experienced virtually no lines while polls in minority and college areas had lines that took hours to navigate, etc., etc.
The dominionist leaders' organization is awesome. They mentor the fundamentalist pastors who mentor their flocks and get them out to vote for the "right" candidates. The politicians reward them and keep them happy for the next election by pushing their social agenda. There's no accountability anywhere when the Secretary of State ("Katherine" Blackwell, we call him) controls the elections and the AG who would normally prosecute election and non-profit fraud are part of the system. Two of the reform issues that were "voted" down would have taken election control and redistricting away from elected officials and given them to bipartisan appointees. The new bill would further erode oversight.

by Psyche on Tue Dec 13, 2005 at 01:23:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

None of my questions having been answered (none / 0)

I went googling. The best source of regular updates on the Ohio legislation in question, H.B. 3, is an Ohioan's diaries at Daily Kos.

The bill has significant differences in its house and senate versions, which is what caused it to be delayed for reconsideration until early next year.

But I wanted to note an aspect of the legislation that undermines Joan's linking of it with dominionist political ambitions in Ohio. Agreed that Ken Blackwell has joined up with dominionists in his quest for the Republican nomination for governor. However, H.B. 3 specifically

bans the secretary of state, Ohio's top election official, from playing a significant role in a political or ballot issue - other than his own campaign. The bill now also bans the state attorney general from key roles on state ballot issues.

{News-Herald editorial 12/13/2005}

H.B. 3 is a mess of some good provisions and many awful provisions, undemocratic and anti-Democratic. But it's simply not the case that everything Republican in Ohio is a dominionist threat because one faction of the party is.

I'd welcome more information on Blackwell's partisan pastor network, etc., because we may face similar organization in our own states. But HB 3 is not a dominionist ploy.

by Nell on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 03:35:27 PM EST

Ohio Restoration Project in The Economist (none / 0)

The current issue of The Economist (I encourage you to purchase it for its article on evolution "The story of man") has an article about the shape of political/electoral things to come in Ohio. It doesn't bode well for Democrats. The article notes that the Ohio Restoration Project boasts of registering 300,000 voters since being created. That's a helluva lot of people. How many new (and non-urban) voters have the Dems and progressives registered, I wonder?

by IseFire on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 03:33:04 PM EST

Let's talk about Ohio... NOW! | 19 comments (18 topical, 0 hidden)

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Mark Silk, at Spiritual Politics has picked up on my notice of the Hagee-Rodriguez embrace and zeroes in on what's certainly one of the most notable aspects: "The key thing to understand about the......
Bruce Wilson (1 comment)

Inscribing Christian Values in our Children Before Birth?
Following the evolution of evangelical discourse as it re-defines homosexuality as evidence of "fallen creation", Terri Murray looks at how the Christian right have shifted their rhetoric to adapt to empirical research showing that......
TMurray (1 comment)

US News & World Report Showcases Creationist Ray Comfort
US News and World Report's Dan Gilgoff has charitably provided evangelist Ray Comfort a media platform in the form of a US News & World "exclusive" through which Comfort defends his efforts to distribute,......
Bruce Wilson (0 comments)

Atheist billboard in Central Florida
The organization "Atheists of Florida" sponsored a billboard promoting atheism in Lakeland, Florida. I, however, have some concerns. ......
ArchaeoBob (4 comments)

Transcript: Billy Graham and Richard Nixon, February 21, 1973
The following is my own transcript of a 20 minute phone conversation between Richard Nixon and Billy Graham, on February 23, 1973. As far as I am aware this is the only publicly available,......
Bruce Wilson (0 comments)

Rifqa Bary being sent back to Ohio now
Well, there's a change in this case. After the judge gets immigration documents and so on from the parents, he will send her back. ......
ArchaeoBob (2 comments)

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