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On Public Displays of Religious Symbology
By GeneG Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 12:06:20 PM EST printable version print story
I hear the discussion over the public display of the Ten Commandments, a Jewish and Christian religious symbol. I don't understand the issue, either from a religious or a secular point of view.
topic:

I realize this argument, posed as religion stemming the tide of secularism really does not have a secular point, but what is the religious point? If putting a statue of the Ten Commandments on the court house lawn, or posting a copy of them in the hallways of our schools would improve the morality of our nation

I don't think there would be a discussion and these monuments would have been installed years ago. Religious structures have no power to improve morality. Count the churches in our cities and towns and ask yourself if they have succeeded in making us a moral nation.

Do we need public displays of the Ten Commandments to remind us of the Jewish origin of our laws? Why? Our existing legal structure has long since left the simplicity of these few words in the dust. The Code of Hammurabi, the Constitution of Solon, the Doomsday Book of William the Conqueror, English Common Law, and The Constitution of the United States of America each have had as much impact on our legal system as The Ten Commandments.

Posting the Ten Commandments in the town square will not make us a holier nation. They will not make us love God one bit more or less than we do now. If we are intent on following Jesus, or loving God, we will do it without benefit of stone reminders. More than once God tells us He takes no delight in our external signs of piety, He cares about how we treat each other. External piety in the face of starvation, oppression, corruption, arrogance, usury and theft is an abomination in God's sight. Are we to plaster the Ten Commandments throughout the land in an attempt to cover the stench of corruption from our churches and our institutions? Is God so small that we can blind Him to our real failure by a few stone carvings? Can our piety suffice for our lack of internal rectitude? I am reminded of the days of Jeremiah. With Jerusalem surrounded and on the verge of destruction the false prophets told the rulers to continue worshipping idols and all will be well. This is the situation we as a country find ourselves in now, continue in our idolatry and all will be well. Many of the churches in our country have turned the Bible, The Ten Commandments, and some political issues into objects of worship and forgotten that God alone, not these things, these works of human hands, is worthy of worship.

Essentially meaningless issues such as homosexuality, gay marriage, abortion, Creationism and Intelligent Design stir the pot causing us to ignore the real immoralities of our day. They ratchet up the volume of discord drowning out the more important moral issues of how we treat one another. I am reminded of the Good Samaritan who looked after the injured stranger while the pious avoided him precisely because of his injuries. The pious concentrate on the unclean while the wounds go untreated.

Our nation is being stolen from us by degrees through a usurious banking system, war profiteering is an official policy of our government as is the systematic destruction of the middle class, the public school system, our economy, and our social safety net. Our government ignores the poor and the widowed while engaging in the largest redistribution of income in its history. Those who seek power in the name of God condone and even support these policies. They have sold their souls for power, creating idols and forgetting God. We are like Jerusalem, surrounded by our enemies, worshipping false gods, arrogant in our power, and rotten to the core.

The fight over public displays of religious symbols has become a fight over whether God wants a holy, moral people committed to Him and to each other, or an idolatrous nation worshiping the images of God, rather than God Himself. God tells us He will write His laws on our hearts. If indeed, His law is in our heart He will know this by our actions and commitments, not by an idolatrous stone altar on the courthouse lawn.




Display:
I am not for religious symbols like the Ten Commandments is because they don't work.   They have been around for over 2,000 years and still people lie, steal, murder, commit adultery, and covet.  And how many people keep the sabbath day holy?

The only reason to display the Ten Commandments is to promote a certain religion.  It is a statement which says that one religion is more worthy than another of being displayed.  It is wrong because it puts one religion above all others.  

by LynChi on Thu Dec 22, 2005 at 10:45:42 PM EST

I think that it is a bit rash to say that moral symbols "don't work". This is about like saying that exercise and diet "don't work" (or that public service announcements about the advantages of exericise and diet don't work) to control weight, because there are still fat people.

Indeed, I fear that the items I wrote about in my commend work very well. They have done an excellent job of promoting the idea that only a person who trusts in God, is "under God", and who has no god before the Judeo Christian God, is fit to be trusted as a full member of American society.

All others are to be merely "tolerated" -- at best -- as long as they show proper submission to the superior "under God" clique.

Indeed, if these items have the capacity to promote a certain religion, as you claim, then they do work. That which has the capacity to promote a specific religion also has the capacity to promote a moral opinion.
Alonzo Fyfe

The Atheist Ethicist
by Alonzo Fyfe on Thu Dec 22, 2005 at 11:47:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Take myself, for instance.  I am neither a Christian or a Jew (I'm a Religious Scientist).  I do have a law degree, however.  Efforts to make sure that a Ten Commandments display are in front of me every two feet, without any unique symbols of my faith, do send a clear message that I'm not as valued in society as the extremly conservative Christian.  Not only that, I believe they are put there to remind me who is dominant in this society, rendering defeated the spirit of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and related case law.  What makes us unique in this country, and what we are about to lose, is the guarantee of fundamental rights, and hence respect, for the minority as well as the majority.  We need to make sure that the government does not promote one type of relgion, via its symbols, and that will show a true appreciation of the diverse population in these United States.

by Maat on Fri Dec 23, 2005 at 07:42:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]



Jesus rebuked religious leaders for focusing on outward forms instead of inner transformation. He called them hypocrites, and compared them with whited sepulchers, full of dead men's bones. That's an apt metaphor for those who preach outward displays of piety, but lack compassion.

"Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean," said Jesus. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness." (Gospel According to Matthew 23:26-28)

For those of us who follow Jesus, our challenge is to look in the mirror and say, "How then shall I live?" That's a very different, humbling perspective because it's about cleaning up our own "inside," not just looking outward and telling everyone else how to behave.


by jhutson on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 08:09:25 PM EST


I am not concerned with the display of religious symbols per se, but with the message conveyed by those symbols.

For example, the national motto, "In God We Trust" says that the nation is to be divided up into two populations, a "we" identified by its trust in God and, by the process of elimination, a "they" who do not.

We get the same message from the Pledge, as it now stands. Clearly, the phrase "with liberty and justice for all" was meant to convey a message of approval for justice of liberty, and to convey disapproval for tyranny and injustice. The word "indivisibl" exists to convey a message of approval for Union and to foster disapproval of rebellion.

Following this pattern, clearly, "under God" is meant to favor those who believe in God, and to announce the same disapproval of those who deny God as we should have for rebellion, tyranny, and injustice.

The 10 Commandments start with, "Thou shalt have no god before me." Whereas the First Amendment states, "Thou shalt have whatever God thy pleaseth, so long as thou can live in peace with those who worship a different God, or have a different view of the same God."

I do think, however, that it is a mistake to focus on the fact that something is a religious symbol, if the real problem is the message contained within. We should be focusing on the message.

It is wrong to separate populations into groups of "we" and "they" based on religious beliefs.

It is wrong to put those who do not share a particular religious belief in the same category as rebels, tyrants, and the unjust, purely based on those beliefs.

It is wrong for the state to tell the people which God they should have.

Alonzo Fyfe

The Atheist Ethicist
by Alonzo Fyfe on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 09:00:29 PM EST

With tongue in cheek; maybe we should ask them which is more important, freedom of religion or the 10 Commandments using whatever their demon is (Allah, the Pope, Mormons, etc.) to suggest whose Commandments we may be required to use in the future.
Note that the use of the above is probably more likely to provoke than to show love. But I have used it among friends to amplify a point with some success (I hope).
Jim Blyler, 'inspectjim'

by inspectjim on Sun Dec 25, 2005 at 02:34:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]


The 'religious right' (which is neither) is a socio-cultural politcal movement, and these displays are only secondarily about the primae-facia religious message they contain.  They are really cultural political symbols for a reactionary cultural movement made up of the leftovers of the racial and nativist movements which have been around in American politics since shortly after our founding.  The religious overtones of these movements originate in the revival movements (the emergence American do-it-yourself protestant gurus) during the second Great Awakening.   They also gave us frauds like Joseph Smith - creator of a 'movement' not too terribly different from tele-evangelical media empires of today.  

Much like the like "Catholic" and "Protestant" symbols in Ireland since William of Orange attempted to assert English political control beyond the Pale and initiated the dynamics of modern Irish history, the basic differences are far less about theology than economics and culture.  

These symbols are cyphers, whose meaning is deeply dependent on the viewer and so provide a powerful rallying point wherein everyone can 'see' in them what it is they choose to.  Like fetuses, which are uncorrupted by actually being born into the world, they are beyond or above the reach of criticism and unassailable.  This is precisely the reason so much of the emotional energy of these movement is derived from the abortion issue.  

So, I'd personally have no real issue with a diplay of the symbols/artifacts of the great law givers: show me a tablet of Hammurabi's Code alongside it, and I have less trouble with Moses' tablets.  Of course, Roy Moore wants no such thing, and the activist law he'd create while handing down decisions would inject a lot of subjective values not found in either the legislation, or a 'strict constructionist' reading of the Ten Commandments - although his display is a marker to indicate to me and his movement precisely those values.  

What I really find most troubling is the sophistry that gets passed off as serious intellectual discourse in this country about these things - largely because this movement was a dying one when out there in a naked and honest straightforward presentation of itself.  They've had to resort to debates about the terms of the debate, instead of on the merits, and, as with the clear-cut ID decision in Dover, PA, squeal in surprise, again, not on the merits, but in an attempt to turn the values of the materialist methodology (objective reason) on which our country's governing philosophy was founded against itself.  This really is no different from what Islamic fundamentalists in Algeria, Egypt and now Iraq have attempted to do given any democratic freedom.  The cynicism of the corporate media in exploiting this as another source of supposedly empty noise is really playing with fire.  Some things you do not kid around about.  

by montpellier on Mon Dec 26, 2005 at 03:00:17 PM EST


The Ten Commandments is the cornerstone of the Abrahamic faiths and a great influence upon our system of law. Some commands are based upon a leap of faith, but most of it is just commonsense. Why shall thou not steal? Because, it erodes the work ethic: it can be accompanied by violence. Why shall thou not commit adultery? Because, it encourages jealousy, rage, alienates parents from children and you can bring a whole host of social diseases into your house. You can also bring children into the world that may become unjustly treated as pariahs. You get the picture. The Commandments give us order.

The Ten Commandments have been part of a particularly telling political controversy in Alabama. Judge Roy Moore has installed a monolithic monument to the Ten Commandments in the central courthouse. Installing this monument was not so much an expression of the Judge's commitment to the Commandments, which most legal scholars identify as a foundational aspect of most legal codes, and which Judge Moore most likely, and reasonably relies on in his daily legal work, but rather a calculated political move. Judge Moore clearly intended to tap into a popular attitude, which has become a core quality of American political conservatism that of an American Christianity is supposedly besieged by an increasingly secularized or even "Godless" government. The problem here is not a statue, but the context in which the statue presents the Commandments. While it is true the Commandments have exerted influence upon our codified statutes, they are not, however, word for word, the law of the land. In other words, does this monument elevate the status of one religion over another? In this case, the answer is yes.

As we said earlier, the Ten Commandments are clearly part of our judicial heritage. If the display would have had been part of a presentation on the formation of our current legal system that would have been fine. Perhaps that presentation would include the Code of Hammurabi and the Magna Carta.  However, the line was crossed when the good judge had the Ten Commandments carved out in an exclusively Protestant interpretation. Furthermore, carved into its sides are references that are clearly admonishing a faith in the Deity than instead of merely making allusions. And since the test is whether one specific religious institution has been given more importance than others, the establishment clause has been violated. If the judge had wanted to avoid much of this criticism, all he had to do was just to use Roman numerals one through ten while toning down the carved references. Then, there would have been "wiggle room;" at least the language could be subject to each individual citizen's understanding.

When this particular monument was removed from the courthouse it did not deny any religious person his or her ability to practice his or her faith. That would have occurred if churches and temples were being shut down in order to interfere with a given religion's practice. Nor did anyone tell the protestors that they cannot prayer. But it is improper to take a governmentally funded courthouse and then transform it from a court of law into a de facto church. Citizens do not ordinarily go to a courthouse with the primary goal of holding a prayer service; instead they go there for the dispensation of secular law.

The Ten Commandments is not the statutory authority by which all of Alabama's citizens live by, instead, it is a contributing source of their laws. Judge Moore's actions show a clear intention that he believes this should be the law of the State of Alabama. And in doing so he chose to impose a singular moral consensus on the citizens of his state. To give this particular monument a special place in and of itself, is exclusionary to citizens who are B'hai, Buddhist, Catholic, Jewish or who have no faith at all.

by Frank Cocozzelli on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 09:26:28 AM EST



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