Donate to or support
Talk to Action








The Indian River Incident : What You Can Do

link > The "Stop the ACLU Coalition" Shaming Project
How you can help stop "Stop The ACLU" just by sending a few emails



 'Left Behind' video game imageThe Shaming Project

does the violence of "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" bother you ? If so, what can you do ? Well, to begin with you can email Jonathan Hutson's stories to people you know. That will help to bring more public scrutiny of the game. Public shaming really works ! Just click on the "email" icon and link at the top or bottom of the story and you'll be taken to a form that will allow you email the first story, The Purpose Driven Life Takers or the latest installment without leaving this site. Thanks. 'Left Behind' video game image




Young Earth vs. Old Earth debate within the Christian Community
By joelp Thu Jan 12, 2006 at 03:00:36 PM EST printable version print story
Fundamentalist religious interpretation claims to speak for all within its faith, which is (of course) ridiculous and anti-pluralistic (and anti-realistic). Within the American Christian community, as with ANY community, there are wildly different views on many issues. We have heard ad nauseam this idea of an inerrant Bible saying that the earth is around 6000 years old, and the Bush Administration has even allowed the placement of books in the Grand Canyon bookshop which say this! This is called the "Young Earth" argument. Schroeder Publishing, a Southern California Christian publisher, has put some time and effort explaining this pseudo-science, and is active in debunking the argument within a Christian context. Their message - TRUTH is more important than ideology, and "Old Earth" science is not only NOT incompatible with the Bible, but common sense.

From their Science Speaks Newsletter they lay down the gauntlet:
It is our assertion that there are no valid young-earth arguments - not even one. Whether scriptural or scientific, they all contain errors. If there is even one valid argument which actually proves the earth is young, we still haven't seen it. We challenge any young earther to demonstrate otherwise.
It's not that anyone can claim they are not "Christian" enough - their agenda, sounding like many on the far political/religious right, is clear:
God's creation testifies of its great age. If we hope to regain credibility, win court cases, and influence our country, then we Christians need to speak the truth. The goal of the Science Speaks Newsletter is to examine evidence and answer questions. We believe that the young earth position is insupportable and that all scientific and Scriptural issues are better answered in the context of an old earth.
In other words, they feel the need to discredit the anti-science extremists within their own community if they are to gain traction with Americans on issues that are most important.

Excerpts from author Dan Stone include "Old Earth Evidence I, Annual Layers," which argue for basic common sense within the Christian community otherwise propagandized by their own anti-science crowd, using anecdotal examples:

God created his universe with many built in ways of knowing its age. There are many natural processes which keep an actual count of passing years. The first of these we learn about, often as children, is that we can tell how old a tree is by counting its annual rings.

It is easy to understand why this works. When a tree grows, it adds wood to its outside layer just under the bark. Trees do most of their growing in the spring and summer and sit dormantly through the winter. This means that wood is added to the outside of the tree in spurts once a year. These annual growth spurts are visible as rings in the grain of the wood. By examining these rings, we can see many things such as which years had what sort of weather and during which years fires occurred.

Some trees live for very long periods of time; Bristlecone pine trees, which grow in the White Mountains of California, live for many thousands of years. One lived over 5000 years before it was, unfortunately, cut down in 1964. Now 5000 years is not the age of the earth; it is merely the age of one tree in California. Obviously, the soil and rocks which were under that tree are even older.

Like trees, sediments which accumulate in the bottoms of lakes also keep a yearly record of time. Different seasons create different types of sediments. In spring and summer, they are rich in calcium carbonate (limestone) which dissolves in the water from melting winter snow. The rest of the year, sediments are rich in organic material. This creates visible annual layers which stack up year after year.

The Green River Formation, of Utah, Colorado and Wyoming, is made of sediments from a huge fresh water lake which once occupied that location. It contains more than four million annual layers. This means that the lake existed for millions of years before it disappeared. This is still not the age of the earth; it is only the length of time one particular lake existed. Once again, the rocks which lie under these layers, including all of the dinosaur fossils and all of the layers in the Grand Canyon, must be older yet.

There are many other examples we could examine. God has left a great deal of detailed and consistent evidence for the age of His creation. Scientists who study this evidence don't just think God's creation is old, they know it is old.

While constant references to God in every discussion (including science) may not be my style or belief, it is for millions of moderate Christian Americans (especially the home schoolers). This web page includes links and references to their publications and articles from others for this "common sense science" argument within a Christian, Jesus-centered context. They don't want the non-rationalists to give them a bad name, either, and don't feel it's OK to lie just to prove a story.

So don't buy the argument that "Young Earth" is the only Christian interpretation.




Display:

WWW Talk To Action


Its the Substance, Not the Slogan
As Talk to Action regulars know, we believe that name calling and cheap sloganeering are no substitute for actual knowledge and the capacity to......
By Frederick Clarkson (6 comments)
Short Takes: The Family edition
Religion Dispatches: A number of religious leaders called on president Obama to condemn the proposed Ugandan kill the gays bill, which had been originally......
By Frederick Clarkson (0 comments)
Will National Prayer Breakfast Once Again Flaunt Fake George Washington 'Prayer' ?
It was February 2006. President George Bush, King Abdullah of Jordan, and Bono all gathered at the 2006 National Prayer Breakfast. If they read......
By Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
NY Times, AP, Cable News Reports on Air Force Academy Don't Get the Picture
In recent weeks, there has been a pretty steady stream of articles reporting on the much improved religious climate at the U.S. Air Force......
By Chris Rodda (3 comments)
The Road to Remonstrance
I recently wrote about the need for mainstream and liberal Catholics to offer remonstrance -- an earnest presentation of reasons for opposition or grievance......
By Frank Cocozzelli (7 comments)
Angry Voters, Right-Wing Populism, & Racial Violence
Eric Ward is nervous. He's seen it before--the angry right-wing populist crowds, the strident calls to "Restore America" and "Take it Back." In the......
By Chip Berlet (8 comments)
Historians Whack "Liberal Fascism" Thesis
David Neiwert has pulled together a critique of the idea of "Liberal Fascism" over at the History News Network: "It has now been just......
By Chip Berlet (1 comment)
Texas Churches and the Governor's Race
In Polk County Texas, Governor Rick Perry held a campaign rally in one of the Black churches.  He was joined by the head of......
By wilkyjr (0 comments)
Richard Land and Presidential Politics
Andrew Hogue of Baylor University has chronicled the story of Richard Land's connection to Presidential power.  Writing in Texas Baptist History's 2006 Journal, Hogue......
By wilkyjr (0 comments)
Good Riddance 'Jesus Rifles' -- Trijicon to Stop Putting Bible References on Military Rifle Sights
(I've updated this post to add some photos and other stuff to rebut the most common comments I'm seeing on other articles and blogs.)......
By Chris Rodda (1 comment)
Movement Behind Uganda's "Kill the Gays" Bill Organizing in Newark
Street by street, block by block, organized by city ward, PrayforNewark's squads of church members are walking their city, praying for residents and businesses.......
By Bruce Wilson (6 comments)
Resource Directory for the New Apostolic Reformation
The Apostles and Prophets of the New Apostolic Reformation view their postdenominational movement as the future face of the Protestant church and the end......
By Rachel Tabachnick (0 comments)
Sight Fight: U.S. Military Must See Problem With Bible Engravings
Yesterday I wrote on AU's blog about a controversy that has erupted over the revelation that a Michigan-based company has engraved references to biblical......
By Rob Boston (5 comments)
History Matters: Obama Declares Religious Freedom Day
President Barack Obama has issued a Proclamation declaring January 16th Religious Freedom Day. (PDF) In it he invokes the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom......
By Frederick Clarkson (0 comments)
Video Exposes Antigay Western Theocratic Effort "Transforming" Uganda
My new 20 minute documentary, Transforming Uganda, exposes the immense political influence in Uganda of the International Transformation Network and ideological influence of George......
By Bruce Wilson (3 comments)

Pope John Paul II's Penitential Practices: The Opus Dei Connection
We are pleased to once again welcome theologian William Lindsey as a guest front pager. This piece is crossposted from the new progressive Catholic group blog, The Open Tabernacle: Here Comes Everybody. -- FC......
By William Lindsey (0 comments)
WallBuilders, Inc., Promoting a dominionist "Christian Nation"
Cherry Hill Seminary Supports Patrick McCollum in 9th Circuit Case Against California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation http://snipurl.com/u8kcj ......
By Dragonzmajick (0 comments)
Roeder verdict sparks fears of more anti-abortion violence
cross-posted at dKos Scott Roeder is likely to spend the rest of his life in prison for the murder of George Tiller.  At the very least, he'll by 75 years old before he can......
By Christian Dem in NC (1 comment)
The dark underside of the Latter Rain--a walkaway's view
cross-posted at dKos I read Bruce Wilson's posts on dKos and Talk To Action regarding the "Pray For Newark" initiative with particular alarm.  While Pray for Newark appears to espouse an admirable goal--community empowerment--it's......
By Christian Dem in NC (2 comments)
Bishops as Provocateurs
In a thinly-veiled reference to the campaign of President Barack Obama, Archbishop Emeritus of St. Louis, Raymond Burke, charged that Americans are "embracing a totalitarianism which masks itself as the 'hope,' the 'future' of......
By bettyclermont (0 comments)
The Vatican v. Children
Yesterday was not a good day for children seeking justice from the Roman Catholic Church. The internet brought the following news: ......
By bettyclermont (0 comments)
Religious bigots control supermarket chain
Well, they've won again.  The religious bigots have forced Publix Supermarkets into bowing to their wishes. ......
By ArchaeoBob (5 comments)
Manhattan Declaration is to Theology what Fox is to Journalism
The December 20, 2009, New York Times ran a lengthy article by David D. Kirkpatrick about Robert P. George, "The Conservative-Christian Big Thinker." The occasion was release of George's "Manhattan Declaration" signed by the......
By bettyclermont (2 comments)
Merry Freakin' Christmas: I'm Taking Your Stuff, and you Can't Stop Me!
A humorous look at the larger implications of a seemingly harmless holiday tradition. ......
By John Sheirer (1 comment)
Lou Engle, September 25, 2007, Los Angeles: "Holywood"
[This is a partial transcription of a sermon/speech Lou Engle, Founder of TheCall gave on September 25, 2007, in Los Angeles. The full sermon is slightly over 63 minutes. This partial transcript is of......
By Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
Rick Warren Tweet complains my videos of his "Hitler/Lenin/Mao" speech are unfair
It's gratifying to know "America's most powerful pastor" seems to have taken notice of my videos, showcasing Rick Warren's 2005 speech at California's Anaheim Angels Stadium, during which Warren outlined a "stealth" program to......
By Bruce Wilson (4 comments)
Blurring Reproductive Rights and the Religious Right
The principle of the Hyde Amendment, which restricted federal funds from paying for abortion back in 1976 -- is now seen as an acceptable, "abortion neutral" position for the prochoice Democratic Party. How did......
By Frederick Clarkson (0 comments)
Rick Warren Calls on Followers To Be Dedicated as Followers of Lenin and Mao
[note: for more recent news on Rick Warren, see Rick Warren's Dissertation Advisor Leads Network Promoting Uganda Anti-Gay Bill] Video, below contains audio recording, photos, and transcript from Rick Warren's April 17, 2005 speech......
By Bruce Wilson (6 comments)
Julius Oyet Touts The College of Prayer
A new Talk To Action story identifies Apostle and bishop Julius Oyet as a major player in the recent effort in the Ugandan parliament to pass a draconian anti-gay bill. In this video [transcript......
By Bruce Wilson (1 comment)
Mark Silk on the Hagee / Rodriguez Entente
Mark Silk, at Spiritual Politics has picked up on my notice of the Hagee-Rodriguez embrace and zeroes in on what's certainly one of the most notable aspects: "The key thing to understand about the......
By Bruce Wilson (1 comment)
Inscribing Christian Values in our Children Before Birth?
Following the evolution of evangelical discourse as it re-defines homosexuality as evidence of "fallen creation", Terri Murray looks at how the Christian right have shifted their rhetoric to adapt to empirical research showing that......
By TMurray (0 comments)
US News & World Report Showcases Creationist Ray Comfort
US News and World Report's Dan Gilgoff has charitably provided evangelist Ray Comfort a media platform in the form of a US News & World "exclusive" through which Comfort defends his efforts to distribute,......
By Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
Atheist billboard in Central Florida
The organization "Atheists of Florida" sponsored a billboard promoting atheism in Lakeland, Florida.  I, however, have some concerns. ......
By ArchaeoBob (3 comments)
Transcript: Billy Graham and Richard Nixon, February 21, 1973
The following is my own transcript of a 20 minute phone conversation between Richard Nixon and Billy Graham, on February 23, 1973. As far as I am aware this is the only publicly available,......
By Bruce Wilson (1 comment)
Rifqa Bary being sent back to Ohio now
Well, there's a change in this case.  After the judge gets immigration documents and so on from the parents, he will send her back. ......
By ArchaeoBob (0 comments)
The War on The War on Christmas Goes To Pot
The first day of Fall could be considered the official launch date for the annual war on the war on Christmas, which represents a significant part of the the American Family Association business model......
By Bruce Wilson (1 comment)
School Officials off the hook
Today it is reported that the judge excused the school officials who violated the agreement they had over separation of Church and State. ......
By ArchaeoBob (0 comments)
Dominionists trying to outlaw birth control
Well, they're at it again in Florida. ......
By ArchaeoBob (6 comments)
No Danger for Rifqa Bary
The FDLE just completed an investigation and found "no credible reports of threats" against Rifqa Bary. ......
By ArchaeoBob (1 comment)
Truth hitting the mainstream!
I've despaired of ever seeing anything critical or exposing Dominionism hit the mainstream press.  There is now an exception. ......
By ArchaeoBob (0 comments)
Extremism?
The term extremism is currently in vogue to describe hate groups and other malcontents listed as such by knowledgeable monitors like SPLC and others in the T2A sidebar, but while we all know what......
By Jay Taber (2 comments)
My Netroots Nation Panel Talk
Where Do We Stand in the Bright Light of History? Netroots Nation August 14, 2009 Thank You, Professor Ledewitz, for initiating this discussion of a progressive vision for church and state -- and Netroots......
By Frederick Clarkson (0 comments)
Transcript, Jan. 18, 2009 Steven Anderson Sermon Excerpt
Note: the sermon excerpt video and transcript below, from a January 18, 2009 sermon by pastor Steven Anderson of the Tempe, Arizona Independent Baptist Church, begins at approximately 21:30 into Anderson's  one hour, four......
By Bruce Wilson (2 comments)
More anti-Muslim provocation
The local paper reports that students in Gainsville, Florida are wearing T-shirts with "ISLAM IS OF THE DEVIL" printed on them. ......
By ArchaeoBob (1 comment)

More Diaries...


Donate to or support
Talk to Action

Left Behind: Eternal Forces: Installments of Jonathan Hutson's Talk To Action expose series on the "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" video game have been viewed by up to 1/2 million people. See our site section featuring Over 35 original articles covering the controversial "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" video game that has provoked a boycott by a coalition of religious groups and a letter writing campaign urging Walmart to stop selling the game. Media inquiries click here
(image: detail from Francoise Dubois' rendition of the Bartholomew's Day Massacre reveals the actual nature of religious warfare)