The reason I'm here instead of at a high school football game on a Friday night, is because I think community forums are important, and I think we're in danger in our society of losing our ability to disagree without being disagreeable. I've heard three very different perspectives, and I agree with all three of you on some points, and disagress vigorously with some of you on other points, but I'm happy to say that I consider you brothers in Christ, and hope we can find some point of commonality. Not only within the Body of Christ, but with other Americans who don't count themselves as part of our faith tradition. So, what I'd like to offer tonight is something that I've learned in dialog with what I call "liberals of good will". You know, there's a tendency in America to polarize and to demonize people who think differently than we do. I've heard lots of angry rhetoric on both sides, and yet when I sit down and talk with real people who disagree with me vigorously, I find that once we get through the initial friction, we're able to talk about some things and work on some things, and accomplish a little something, at least relationally, and find some points of commonality. And that's what I want--to help share with you some of the things that I'm learning, and maybe help you understand what it's like on the Evangelical side of the aisle. There's more, but I'm still working on it. I really appreciated hearing Eric Williams, who spoke first, and was one of the main people behind the IRS complaint that was filed against two major churches that were practically endorsing Ken Blackwell. I'm hoping to write up some of what he said next. There were also two other speakers, both Evangelicals. Everyone was supposed to give a 10 minutes opening statement. Lankford's statment was almost 20 minutes.
The view from the Christian Right | 9 comments (9 topical, 0 hidden)
My faith, the Way of the Square Ground, was against the law until President Carter signed a bill specifically granting us freedom of religion in >>> 1979<<<. I was in college at that time!
Native American religious practice has always been persecuted- starting BEFORE the Pilgrims. The Pilgrims themselves became notorious for forcing their practices upon others. Even as recently as a couple of months ago, I heard complaints about the bill granting us our first amendment rights. The Religious Right is especially hostile. They complain that we get and are wanting special rights- an obvious attempt to turn people against us. What we've asked for all along is the same rights to practice our faith even as they do. The rights guaranteed us under treaties... they are but a dream for most Native Americans (or have been turned into nightmares by the re-interpretation of those treaties). Some Native American faith practices are STILL BANNED. The Native American church is severely persecuted, and their use of peyote (NOT to get high) is against federal law. I understand that the Ghost Dance is still outlawed in areas. There are other ceremonial activities that are not practiced, not because they violate "christian" codes of ethics, but because if the slightest evidence of the practice is noticed, the individual is severely persecuted by the churches (such as the early Christians faced if wine was smelled on their breath after the eucharist in the morning). I don't want to return to the past. Christians are NOT being persecuted, if anything, they are being forced to treat people as Teyose (Jesus) would have them... that is, with kindness and respect. - From someone who was told on the last job (working for a homeless ministry) that he had to choose between his job and his tribe, and whose wife lost her last THREE jobs directly and specifically because of being Native American. (I quit and walked out!) -Also, we were thrown out of a conservative parish because of being Native American!
Tell those sorry bas****s "as you sow, so shall you reap"- if they don't repent!!!
I hope he's just being dishonest because if evangelicals are this delusional, there's no hope of reaching them. He says: "For over 300 years in America, it was widely assumed that to be in public office, you needed to be a Christian--or at least a Unitarian or a Deist. And
that distinction, though important, wasn't critical, because even Deists in ages past were much more biblical in their worldview" ... The Constitution makes it clear that this is false. That's why Patrick Henry and other conservative Christians of the time opposed it. They knew that the Constitution would allow nonchristians and even atheists to hold the highest offices in the land. And during the Civil War, Theocrats were urging Lincoln to rewrite the Constitution to recognize God and Christ. If you look at the writings of Jefferson and Paine, it's unlikely you'd draw the conclusion that Deist thought was very Biblical. Conservative Christians however, have always been pushing this myth. In 1831, The Reverend Bird Wilson, who was just a few years removed from being a contemporary of the so-called founding fathers, said that "the founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, John Quincy Adams, and Andrew Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity."
Dr. Wilson's sermon, which was published in the Albany Daily Advertiser the month it was delivered also made an interesting observation that flatly contradicts
When the war was over and the victory over our enemies won, and the blessings and happiness of liberty and peace were secured, the Constitution was framed
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the All this blathering about how Christians (in the US) are now being "persecuted" is so idiotic. All that those of us from non-Christian faiths want is the same rights that Christians have taken for granted for ages. As Thomas Jefferson wrote: "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." By the same token, it does no injury to those who disagree with homosexuality if homosexuals are allowed to marry, adopt children, or anything else that has been granted to heterosexual couples. It does no injury to those who oppose abortion if someone else has an abortion. What is so terribly wrong with allowing people to live as they see fit, as long as what they are doing doesn't violate someone else's rights? I fail to understand how allowing homosexuals to marry, allowing women the option of abortion, or any of the myriad "crusades" of the Religious Right possibly violates any of their rights. Allowing homosexuals to marry is not the same as forcing everyone to become homosexual, or even making churches marry homosexual couples. The same holds true for the abortion issue...no one is going to force women to have abortions in this country, nor are they going to force churches to promote abortion. It simply makes no sense to suggest that allowing one group of people the same rights and privileges others have had for so long in any way causes harm to those who had the rights before. No one is asking for "special" consideration here...all that is being requested is that the discriminatory practices be ended. What is so wrong with wanting to end discrimination? by LynneK on Sun Oct 08, 2006 at 03:10:51 PM EST
It seems very strange to me that when push comes to shove, and Christians are finally asked (ordered) to actually respect the First Amendment, they take offense.
For 300 years, they have effectively ruled the roost, doing as they pleased with blatant disregard--even hatred and contempt--of other belief systems, infesting schools and common, public--read neutral--ground with their own religious worldview. They prayed their prayers with impunity. They posted their 'commandments' with impunity. They had say in what religions were 'okay' for public officials! For over 300 years in America, it was widely assumed that to be in public office, you needed to be a Christian--or at least a Unitarian or a Deist, Gary Lankford says. The fact that FINALLY other beliefs are speaking out, demanding equal time, demanding that our government actually pay attention to the First Amendment, makes them mad. Secular government and public places is fair to all--is truly neutral ground. Why can't they understand that? How they feel in being denied is how all of us 'others' have felt for 300 years. They have tipped the scales in their own (Christian) favor for so long it seems 'normal'. It isn't. Now we are just saying so. Their whining gets me angry. Sorry if I seem strident. Giving ALL faiths equal time is the goal...IMO. I work towards that. Just my $0.03 worth. YMMV
Q.
It wasn't that one NEEDED to be Christian to serve in public office, it was ASSUMED the EVERYONE was Christian (except Jews, of course, but Jews were slightly comtemptable even to people who weren't openly anti-Semeitc).
What Lankford is really complaining about is the loss of Christianity from it's "special place" in American life, the loss of its hegenomy, like a royalty that has been rendered moot by the advancement of society. Someone should remind him that the early American leaders also codified slavery of Blacks and the second class status of women because like Christian lip-sevice, it was the "fashion" of society at the time. Many male citizens bemoaned women's sufferage on the very same basis as Lankford is complaining about, as did many (most?) Southerners did about emancipation.
The view from the Christian Right | 9 comments (9 topical, 0 hidden)
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Left Behind: Eternal Forces: Installments of Jonathan Hutson's Talk To Action expose series
on the "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" video game have been viewed by up to 1/2 million people. See our site section featuring Over 35 original articles covering the controversial "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" video game that has provoked a boycott by a coalition of religious groups and a letter writing campaign urging Walmart to stop selling the game. Media inquiries click here(image: detail from Francoise Dubois' rendition of the Bartholomew's Day Massacre reveals the actual nature of religious warfare)
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