Reason Requires Facts (or it ain't reason)
Frederick Clarkson printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 03:55:13 PM EST
I recently posted a critique of an op-ed published by author Sam Harris in the Los Angeles Times. In it, I underscored that atheists and most theists have powerful reasons for common cause in the name of historic concepts of religious freedom and separation of church and state -- and in opposition to theocratic interests -- but that Harris's approach throws unnecessary divisions into that alliance.  

But it didn't take long for a major Sam Harris fan to object, calling my post among other things, "dishonest" and "irresponsible."  I don't always respond to such attacks,  but this time a response seemed in order.

If you are just joining us, here is where it all started: Gimme That Old Time Religion (Bashing).  

In response, Austin Cline, the atheism columnist at the mega web site About.com charged that I am "another who unambiguously misrepresents Sam Harris;" and "irresponsible and not particularly honest." He also lumps me together with "liberal Christians of all kinds [who] are adopting the same irresponsible, dishonest tactic. They can't address what Harris actually says, so instead they make up things they can attribute to him and whine about."

Setting aside Cline's invective for the moment, let's get right into the heart of the matter:

Briefly, I critiqued Mr. Harris's argument as it appeared in the op-ed. I pointed out that he claims that jihadists and dominionists are at the center of Islam and Christianity, respectively, and that there exist concentric circles of moderates and liberals beyond these who are providing cover for the extremists at the center of their faith. I objected first to the bogus premise that jihadists and dominionists are at the center of anything, and went on to discuss Harris's claim that moderate and liberal religionists enable this dysfunctional and dangerous condition and are therefore responsible for the views and acts of these extreme elements.

Here is the nugget of Mr. Cline's complaint:

Frederick Clarkson is another who unambiguously misrepresents Sam Harris:

...the burden is on Harris to make his case that liberal Christians are directly or indirectly soft on dominionism. But he does not do that.

Harris does not do that because Harris does not make that claim. Harris does not dispute the fact that liberal believers disagree quite vociferously with moderates, fundamentalists, and dominations. His claim is not that they are "soft" on extremists, but rather that they inadvertently provide shelter to extremists by preventing them from being critiqued as fundamentally as possible.

...his claim that moderate religion is responsible for the extreme views and activities of others requires smacks of the kind of out-of-context-of-life abstraction one sometimes gets from arm chair generals and people whose experience of the political world is limited to grad school.

But of course, Sam Harris isn't quoted as saying that "moderate religion is responsible" for extremism, but for some reason Frederick Clarkson still wants to hold him responsible for that - insisting that he back it up with evidence and argument. That's completely irresponsible and not particularly honest of Clarkson (because he has Harris' words right there in front of him), but it's also not the least bit uncommon."

There is a lot there, but Mr. Cline's attack on my honesty hangs on the phrase, "inadvertently provide shelter to extremists."

Let's begin with the title on Mr. Harris's LA Times op-ed: "God's dupes: Moderate believers give cover to religious fanatics -- and are every bit as delusional."

Note the active verb construction: "give cover" -- to religious fanatics while being every bit as delusional. Indeed. Harris's title makes his meaning crystal clear: and there is nothing in the article that would lead the reader to view it otherwise.

When we get down to the ninth paragraph out of thirteen, we arrive at the phrase "inadvertently provide shelter to extremists."  It is at this point that Cline lifts the word word "inadvertently" out of the context of the article to tell us what Harris really meant.  Unfortunatley for Cline, even the out of context focus on that word doesn't help him.

Mirriam Webster's online dictionary definitions for the one out of context word,"inadvertent" on which he hangs his accusation are, first, "inattentive;" the second; "unintentional."  Neither word implies a lack of responsibility or blamelessness. For example, people die in traffic accidents because of being inattentive. Deaths in hunting accidents may be ruled unintentional. But lines of responsibility are clearly drawn in routine use. And that is precisely what Harris is doing in his op-ed regarding matters of tremendous consequence; war and peace; terrorism, and much more involving the role of religion and its adherents.

So yes, a reasonble and I would say inescapable reading of Harris's op-ed is that he is holding moderates and liberals responsible for the views and acts of terrorists and theocrats. Again, he says up-top where you cannot miss it  that "moderate believers give cover to religious fanatics." And even if he later avers that the cover given is inadvertent, Harris is nevertheless clearly holding moderates and liberals responsible for the views and actions of others. Whether he thinks the degree of responsibility is small or large is not clear and is one reason why we need to hear a factually supported argument. As some of the wise heads at Daily Kos like to say, extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence. I think that is a reasonable standard.

Like any other responsible writer in the face of a challenge to his credibility, I gave Mr. Cline's complaint considerable time and consideration. I wanted to make sure I had not misunderstood or misconstrued anything. Having done so, I stand by what I wrote as a fair and reasoned analsysis of Mr. Harris's op-ed. Mr. Cline has every right to disagree with my critique of Mr. Harris -- but there was nothing remotely dishonest about it.




Display:
and potential allies are necessary and normal.

I made my intentions very clear in my original post and it is wrong absent, ahem, evidence, to presume that my intentions are anything other than exactly what I said that they are.

by Frederick Clarkson on Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 04:44:41 PM EST



Thanks, Fred, for opening this up a bit.  From a review of the matter I think Cline is getting a little shrill to be throwing around allegations of dishonesty.  But there is a gap between theist and atheist that makes it hard for either side to accept the sincerity of the other 100%.  Some atheists nurse a metaphysical swagger that makes their arguments sound like sheer ad hominem, and it takes stamina not to answer in kind.  Regards to you for keeping a level head.

I think Harris' latest paradigm of concentric rings would have scientific value - if he were applying it to a case where his view of reality allowed for the existence of an actual continuum in the first place.

But he alleges things against religion which in effect disallow such a continuum.  And his chosen emphases so cleanly miss the true point of conjunction between the various "families" of Christian believers that it weakens further his argument for their mutual complicity in the heresy of Dominionism.

Harris would like us to believe that a continuum exists such that,

wherever one stands on this continuum, one inadvertently shelters those who are more fanatical than oneself from criticism.

His concentric rings analogy looks like something lifted out of a sociological study of communal complicity in the growth of Nazism or Fascism.  But Harris has made changes to critical elements (in areas he little understands) in order to suit his argument.  And this can't be done willy-nilly, as if "the graphics" will establish the continuum and unify the facts, where he has rejected the principle of any actual relation between facts, and offers only assumptions about the facts.

So it turns out to be a representation of his own bias instead of a scientific application.

For example, we might apply the concentric rings of complicity to indict every strand of a society that was struggling with the rise of Nazism (say, Germany in 1932).  But only because we admit the reality of an actual social continuum in the first place - in that case, the sovereign Weimar state under which each citizen (including the Nazi) had a voice with regard to the question of what party or platform is to be vested with the sovereign authority of the whole.

Harris, as I said, attempts to apply the concentric ring analogy to a subject matter (Christianity) whose continuum he does not understand.

His three groups of Christians marked for complicity are: (1) "ordinary" fundamentalists, (2) moderates, and (3) liberals.  But he represents these factions as not only mutually incompatible but even mutually destructive - and yet asks us to believe they are in the business of preserving each other:

"Ordinary fundamentalist Christians, by maintaining that the Bible is the perfect word of God, inadvertently support the Dominionists, ... Christian moderates, by their lingering attachment to the unique divinity of Jesus, protect the faith of fundamentalists from public scorn. Christian liberals who `aren't sure what they believe but just love the experience of going to church occasionally' deny the moderates a proper collision with scientific rationality."

The boldface in the quote is mine - illustrating the point that Harris has further neutralized the validity of his continuum paradigm by implying here that Christianity's transcendental basis is itself unreal.  If there is no head, where, then, is the body or community he is attempting to implicate as a whole?

What is more, his characterization of Christian liberals is so far off that it denies the rest his theory what he would call "a proper collision with scientific rationality."   : )

sorry about the length - I had most of the afternoon.


God bless the whole world - - No Exceptions
by John Anngeister on Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 08:36:51 PM EST

And thanks for this discussion. I agree. Harris's method of using terms like spectrum and concentric circles is a bit of rhetorical razzle dazzle designed to sound scientific when he actually has no factual basis for his claims. It effectively plays to the anti-religious emotions of his fans, but that does not mean that he has presented anything remotely like a factual and reasoned case.

by Frederick Clarkson on Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 09:02:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Although I am not an athiest and don't support abolition of religion as Harris does, I have just finished reading "Letter to a Christian Nation" and a lot of it makes sense.

I do agree however, that the evangelicals do protect and support the more radical element of their faith simply because they are labelled "Christian" and therefore must be good.

For example, in the last week, my brother who is quite religious (moderate)  sent on an e-mail having to do with the placing of the ten commandments in government buildings and prayer in schools.  I replied that I disagreed with him and told him that I felt it was a political thing involving the Religious Right and gave him the following web address to introduce him to the radicals who are making the great outcry:

http://adultthought.ucsd.edu/Culture_War/The_American_Taliban.htm l

His reply was that I was attacking Christians and the Christian religion, among other things, and he has not spoken to me since.  

Now if these same people ran for office, he would vote for them simply because of the label "Christian", therefore good, and would never question whether they were extremists.

And I am finding that there are many more with the same attitude around me.  By virtue of their loyalty to other Christians, they do not even think to go beyond that.

Could that be the kind of thing Harris is talking about?

by Concerned on Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 11:45:44 PM EST

But the difficulty here is that if you  read Harris's LA Times piece, there is no way to tell for sure, and I certainly can't speak for Mr. Harris.

My guess is that yes, he would view your brother, as you describe him, (and I am sorry to hear about that) as someone who is responsible for people whose views and actions may be far more extreme than his own.

We all know that there are many such people on the Christian Right. But Harris's indictment is much broader: he claims that ALL Christians of moderate and liberal views are, by virtue of a shared belief in the divinity of Jesus (and perhaps some additional particulars) therefore responsible for the extreme views and acts of dominionists.

It is an extraordinary claim; and it requires extraordinary evidence. And I don't think he's got it.

P.S. If you want to show your brother material that might reach him, next time try using a site that is not headlined: "Quotes from the The American Taliban."  There are certainly ways of being more diplomatic.

by Frederick Clarkson on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 12:18:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]



I think your brother is not actually what we are calling here a "moderate" but is instead an "ordinary fundamentalist" (if we are trying to work here within Harris' simple array of types).

Notice too that his reaction to your email and your other comments about him make more sense if we view him as such.

Be aware that many Christians these days who are no better than rank fundamentalists take great pains to distinguish themselves as "evangelicals," but this is often only because they feel nervous using a term that they think has been culturally reserved for the Muslim variety of extremist.

Any Christian who believes that the Bible is "inerrant" is by definition a fundamentalist, even if he is the Soul of Peace in every other regard.  An evangelical is merely someone who feels called to convert others as a test of his faith, and has freed himself from the old Calvinist idea that only a relatively small "elect" are chosen for salvation.

A Christian "moderate," on the other hand, may be many things, but in this particular case I think he/she would be someone who is only one or two conversations away from understanding the politico-relgious problem with the ten commandments in courthouses and prayer in public schools.


God bless the whole world - - No Exceptions
by John Anngeister on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 01:08:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

John,

I'm not sure that I can agree with you here.

One hold to an inerrantist view of biblical (whether or not they use the term) is not necessarily a fundamentalist.  In addition to adhering to the fundamentals, fundmentalism refers to an attitude of no compromise and no toleration of dissent.  In contrast to conservatives (many of which could be called inerrantists) who are willing to find unity of mission amidst diversity, fundamentalists adopt a "my way or no way" attitude toward cooperation.  

Your last statement concerning Calvinism is confusing.  A persons soteriology has absolute nothing to do with their view of biblical inspiration.  Reformed Christians tend to be very conservative or fundamentalist.  However, I know a few Reformed "Welcoming and Affirming" American Baptists. Further, most Calvinists (fundamentalists included) are actively involved in evangelism or "converting others." This has been the case of for well over 200 years.  After all, George Whitfield of the  Great Awakening was a Calvinist.  When you use the term Calvinist, I believe you mean hyper-Calvinism.  A hyper-Calvinist does not feel the need to be involved in missions and evangelism.

I'd add that so-called evangelicals shy away from the label "fundamentalist" not because of Muslims but becaue of the reputation that separtist fundamentalists earned for themselves beginning in the 1920's (Scope Trial, etc.).


by Big Daddy Weave on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 04:32:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Sorry for the confusion, Weave - I meant my "old calvinist" as a shorthand for your "hyper calvinist."  Don't you agree that the secret of the Wesley-Whitfield success was their breakout from hypercalvinism to a teaching of a general salvation (not of a preordained "elect" but of all who repented)?  But yes, Whitfield maintained other points of Calvinism tougher than Wesley.

I'm surprised by how few Baptists you allege to be "welcoming and affirming" types - if you mean by this simply open to a broad soteriology (to all the repentant).

Glad you mentioned the 1920's - but don't you think a preponderance of evangelicals are still fundamentalists in that sense? Apart from the Lutheran evangelicals and other groups that have the word as part of their denominational name.  I was referring to fundamentalists who take pains to say, "oh no, I am an evangelical!"

I think it was important for the Billy Graham movement to distance itself from Scopes, etc.  But when I listen, it feels like they are merely shying away from negative spin from that period for public relations purposes.  Are you completely discounting my assertion that they are sensitive to the branding by the press of the Muslim fundamentalists?  This happened at least as far back as the embassy capture by the Iranian students in 1979.  Lately I think the term "extremist" is being offered as a gambit - If the Muslim becomes an "extremist" then "good old" fundamentalism can be recouped by the many who would like to wear it proudly.

Are you suggesting that your category "conservative" is completely missing from Harris' simple division - somewhere between ordinary fundamentalist and moderate?  Do you think that "Concerned's" brother falls into this new group you propose?  I question your attempt to cut out a space for "inerrancy" conservatives by making the fundamentalist category break along the line of human temperament.  There are not too many denominations - there are some - who will allow significant compromises to their creeds and confessions, but this does not make them fundamentalist, does it?

Anyway, thanks for rolling with this.


God bless the whole world - - No Exceptions
by John Anngeister on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 08:30:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

By Welcoming and Affirming, I meant that one can be reformed in their soteriology (a view held primarily by conservatives) but also hold more progressive views on other issues such as homosexuality.  In my "denomination" (Cooperative Baptist Fellowship), most are modified Arminians but there are a few Calvinists.

Absolutely, a preponderance of evangelicals are still fundamentalists like Frank Norris (minus the separtist characteristic).  Southern Baptists will argue that most of their messengers/professors/pastors are neo-evangelicals - but that's just not historically correct.  

No, I wouldn't discount your assertion concerning Muslims.  Not at all.  But for many, the term "fundamentalist" has been considered a pejorative for decades.  Jerry Falwell may have self-identified as a "fundamentalist" in the 50's, 60's, and 70's but most fundamentalist Southern Baptists during that period refused to embrace the label.

Concerned's brother sounds like a fundamentalist - definitely no moderate.  

I do believe a category exists between moderate and fundamentalist.  But as you said, Harris' division is simple.  Sam often paints with a broad brush.  A moderate is someone who believes in the divinity and a liberal just enjoys the experience and community of Church?  A few exceptions aside, most of my liberal friends believe in Christ's divinity.  His rants just turn me off.

Inerrancy is a politically-charged term especially in Baptist life.  I think one can hold a very high view of biblical inspiration but not be a fundamentalist.  During the Takeover of the SBC, quite a few true theological conservatives who believed the Bible was authoritative and sufficient for all matters of faith and practice (basically inerrancy) were run out of the SBC and branded moderates because they would not support the fundamentalists.  So, in that respect - those theological conservatives opposed the political goals of the Religious Right, affirmed separation of church and state, and were willing to cooperate and fellowship with non-inerrantists (moderates and progressives).  While not fundamentalist, they can't be lumped with the theological moderates - too many differences.

Baptists (traditionally) are not a creedal people.  When doctrinal conformity is not on the agenda, Baptists have been able to worship and work together for the sake of unity.  In this environment, I think it becomes clear that a conservative category exists between fundamentalist and moderate. In other denominations, the same may not be true.  I don't know.  As a moderate Baptist raised by a Baptist Historian on a Baptist college campus and now a graduate student at Baylor, I can only speak for my experience.

by Big Daddy Weave on Mon Mar 26, 2007 at 12:04:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]






Several inconsistencies and inaccuracies immediately leap out in Harris's op-ed, starting with this statement:

Christian liberals -- who aren't sure what they believe but just love the experience of going to church occasionally -- deny the moderates a proper collision with scientific rationality. And in this way centuries have come and gone without an honest word being spoken about God in our society.

Besides his simplistic means of pigeon-holing all liberal Christians as people who "just love the experience of going to church occasionally," he displays some of the very same divisive certitude of which he accuses the "true believers" of having.

Perhaps the issue is not whether individuals choose to believe in a Creator or not, but whether they have the tolerance to respect that choice? If so, then it appears that Mr. Harris has his own demons to deal with.


by Frank Cocozzelli on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 01:59:06 PM EST


Mr Clarkson, you say;  

"I pointed out that he claims that jihadists and dominionists are at the center of Islam and Christianity, respectively, and that there exist concentric circles of moderates and liberals beyond these who are providing cover for the extremists at the center of their faith. I objected first to the bogus premise that jihadists and dominionists are at the center of anything..."

Mr Harris did not make the claim that jihadists and dominionists are at the centre of their respective faiths, he claimed that they were at the centre of concentric circles of diminishing reasonableness. (i.e they are the most unreasonable)

Rather than being an example of "crackpot geometry" I would suggest that you would agree with his assertion.

The jihadists and dominionists have no doubts about their faith, their religion tells them what they want to hear and they interpret it without nuance or compromise.  

Further out in these concentric circles, we have the people (the vast majority) who take a more liberal view of religion, theirs is a religion with room for doubt, with no absolutes.  But coming with these doubts and nuances are delusional beliefs that shield the most unreasonable among them.  Faith is seen as a virtue, the teachings of their religion, the inspired world of a supreme being.

When it comes to a time of questioning the values of faith, or belief in a higher power, it is the moderates who give unwitting shelter to the extreme elements amongst them. After all the moderates are still sure that their supreme being is the supreme being and all other faiths are wrong.

by gollo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 03:29:26 PM EST

As I pointed out in an earlier post, Immanuel Kant stated that no one could know with exact certitude if God exists. Conversely, he also argued that no one could know with exact certitude that God does not exist. Such subject matter falls into the realm of belief, not empirical knowledge. And being a matter of belief, far from making a person delusional, it is more often a logical conclusion whether or not to believe.

Not everything has an empirical basis--love, for example. We never see love as a concrete object, but we know it exists. For many of us, it is the same way we conclude that a Supreme Being exists.

Abbrasive comments such as yours' may make you feel smart, but it does nothing to further your cause. All it does is reveal a certitude that turns off a lot of folks. Who are you to say that because I believe in God that I am "delusional?" Are you a licensed psychologist?

by Frank Cocozzelli on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 04:56:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dear Frank, (if I may call you so)

I am upset that my comments have upset you so.  It was not my intention to be abraisive, nor to appear superiour to anyone. I do not wish to infer that you (or anyone else) have a psychiatric disorder, merely that in my opinion that you hold a view, (the existance of God) that is delusional.

If I felt that I led a delusion (a false belief or opinion) free life and stated such you would be well within your rights to call me arrogant for I would be so.  However I am well aware that I do not.

Your presence on this website indicates to me that whatever your beliefs, you do not wish to impose them on me, and I can assure you that I do not wish to impose my beliefs on you, and furthermore I am heartened that people like you exist and are willing to speak out against authoritarian people who do wish to impose their beliefs.

The purpose of my above comment was to try to clarify the concentric circle, and what Sam Harris was trying to convey.

It is not my wish to troll this website, nor appear superiour to anyone on it.

For any offence (real or percieved) I heartfeltly apologise to you and anyone else I upset.

Yours in good faith,

gollo.

by gollo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 05:59:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And what's more, if I ever have to use the word "abrasive" again, next time I will spell it correctly.

by Frank Cocozzelli on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 06:33:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]



I think Mr. Harris is quite clear in his statements about jihadists and dominionists being at the center of their respective faiths, and that moderates and liberals, in their shared "delusions" are culpable in enabling extreme views and acts.  

I might add that in light of this, there can be nothing like what you descrive as a spectrum of "reasonableness," because they are, in his words, equally delusional.  All that exists in this formulation is the relative danger of the delusion.

My concern in this, as I made clear in my posts, is twofold. One is that Mr. Harris exempts himself from reasonable standards of evidence and speaks from his clear prejudices against anyone who lives in what he considers the shared delusion -- a delusion  which he sees as causing much suffering in the world. I get his view. It is not complicated. Second, he additionally claims, that moderates and liberals prevent critical discussion of the problem of terrorism and dominionism because of their shared delusion. I don't believe that is so, and neither you or Mr. Harris have offered any. It is a clever assertion that falls apart in the absence of evidence.

As I wrote, it has been my experience, as someone who has been studying  and writing and speaking and interacting with people concerning these things for many years, that resistance to thinking about these things seriously, and changing our political approaches to meet the needs of our times, is not bound by religion or non-religion. Mostly, I find that people are limited by many bad habits of thought; are set in their ways; or have avoided seeking to understand the religious right social and political movement that has been clearly on the rise for a long time. Ignorance is at the root of a lot of bad thinking about the religious right in America.

How we live in America, and elsewhere, with freedom of conscience and the politics it takes to get there, is not helped by Mr. Harris's attack on tolerance and pluralism and his harsh and dvisive language. If indeed America is as religious and as Christian as Mr.Harris says, his approach is a non starter.  I have no problem with anyone critiquing religious beliefs in particular, or religion in general. There is plenty of room in public life for that. What is profoundly mistaken, and a separate matter in my view, is to attack as delusional (and worse) the very people who can either make or break the theocratic political movement in America.

This country has been led towards greater, not less freedom of thought for hundreds of years by a coalition of religious believers of various sorts and free thinkers of various sorts. I am alarmed by Mr. Harris's ill considered attack on that coalition. I would urge you and anyone else to seriously consider whose intellectual and political leadership you follow in this regard.


by Frederick Clarkson on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 02:16:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]



I read Harris's first book, and also watched him on CSPAN. First, Harris is not opposed to spirituality, especially when based around meditative practices. And if someone had a sense of the existence of a higher power, a feeling of cosmic gratitude, etc., I don't think Harris would have a problem with that either. What he objects to in religion is specific belief in things for which there is little or no evidence, or which are even contradicted by the evidence. The problem is not that only scientific beliefs are valid, but that once you lose contact with evidence, you literally can end up believing anything, simply because it is in a holy book or because saintly and esteemed people have believed it. But I think what really galls Harris is not just belief cut loose from evidence, but that fact that such belief is then held is high esteem. As he mentions, when a belief is presented as part of someone's "faith," a kind of hush falls across the room, and the belief commands a kind of instant respect. Furthermore, Harris points out that some religious beliefs, in any other context, would get you sent to a psychiatrist, but in the context of religion, they are considered completely legitimate. If I claim that babies really do come from storks, I would be thought nuts. If I claim that a large wooden boat held two of every animal species during a worldwide flood, I would be seen as having "great faith." If I claim that my morning glass of orange juice contained the spirit of Alexander the Great, I would end up on anti-psychotic meds. If I claim that a wafer and portion of wine actually are the literal body and blood of Christ, no one would bat an eye. To a large extent, religious belief is the default position. You can have religious beliefs, no matter how unusual, and you don't have to explain or justify anything, while the person who fails to have such beliefs is instantly suspect. I think Harris would say that it should be the other way around, and I would agree with him.

by siguiriya on Mon Mar 26, 2007 at 07:57:19 AM EST
Remember, please. We are not here to debate atheism vs. theism on this site as the site guidelines make very clear. So whether or not Harris makes good points in this regard in his work, is beside the point.

Mr. Harris's work came up in the context of how we contend with the religious right: How, at least in my view, Mr. Harris makes some serious errors in how he thinks of and writes about religion in general as it relates to the subject of our concern here, (problems of evidence, I might add) and secondly his unnecessarily caustic language in his writing that creates division and suspicion amidst the very coalition of people we need to contend with the theocratic threats of our time.

by Frederick Clarkson on Mon Mar 26, 2007 at 12:51:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]




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By Rachel Tabachnick (8 comments)

Publicizing the existence of the NAR -- some suggestions
Some regular columnists here on Talk to Action have complained about difficulties in getting the mass media to notice the existence of a new but rapidly growing - and already highly influential - religious......
Diane Vera (4 comments)
School Board, State and school prayer
Now both the Polk County School Board and the state of Florida are trying to push prayers in the schools! ......
ArchaeoBob (0 comments)
City in trouble for sectarian prayers
The city of Lakeland, Florida has been challenged by Atheists of Florida and the local synagogue for having sectarian prayers before public meetings. ......
ArchaeoBob (0 comments)
The Blind Side's Blind Spot
The hit movie, The Blind Side, is all about the Christian values of being your "brother's keeper." Or is it? ......
John Sheirer (3 comments)
When Christianity is Un-American
Just thought readers might be interested in linking to this article at The Yurica Report: ......
TMurray (1 comment)
Violence increasing
I think people should read this article- and realize that the dominionists are becoming more and more violent.  If something isn't done to counter their hate, this country is in deep trouble! ......
ArchaeoBob (3 comments)
His "Freedom" Means Denying Yours - With Your Own Taxes
Referring to recent political skirmishes over the rights of gays and lesbians to marry, Cardinal Francis George called five rocks thrown at empty buildings and the theft of a few lawn signs "quasi-fascism."  He......
bettyclermont (0 comments)
Rome has spoken....Man the lifeboats!
When Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was elected Pope Benedict XVI in 2005, it was widely reported that he preferred a smaller, more obedient flock in his Church. Once again, he is proving those reports to......
bettyclermont (0 comments)
Your children will be forced to shower with gays! (says the AFA)
I've just received the following American Family Association email, which claims that the Obama administration has a nefarious plan to force gays and straights in the US military to shower together ! Donald Wildmon......
Bruce Wilson (3 comments)
Pope John Paul II's Penitential Practices: The Opus Dei Connection
We are pleased to once again welcome theologian William Lindsey as a guest front pager. This piece is crossposted from the new progressive Catholic group blog, The Open Tabernacle: Here Comes Everybody. -- FC......
William Lindsey (0 comments)
WallBuilders, Inc., Promoting a dominionist "Christian Nation"
Cherry Hill Seminary Supports Patrick McCollum in 9th Circuit Case Against California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation http://snipurl.com/u8kcj ......
Dragonzmajick (2 comments)
Roeder verdict sparks fears of more anti-abortion violence
cross-posted at dKos Scott Roeder is likely to spend the rest of his life in prison for the murder of George Tiller.  At the very least, he'll by 75 years old before he can......
Christian Dem in NC (0 comments)
The dark underside of the Latter Rain--a walkaway's view
cross-posted at dKos I read Bruce Wilson's posts on dKos and Talk To Action regarding the "Pray For Newark" initiative with particular alarm.  While Pray for Newark appears to espouse an admirable goal--community empowerment--it's......
Christian Dem in NC (2 comments)
Bishops as Provocateurs
In a thinly-veiled reference to the campaign of President Barack Obama, Archbishop Emeritus of St. Louis, Raymond Burke, charged that Americans are "embracing a totalitarianism which masks itself as the 'hope,' the 'future' of......
bettyclermont (0 comments)
The Vatican v. Children
Yesterday was not a good day for children seeking justice from the Roman Catholic Church. The internet brought the following news: ......
bettyclermont (0 comments)
Religious bigots control supermarket chain
Well, they've won again.  The religious bigots have forced Publix Supermarkets into bowing to their wishes. ......
ArchaeoBob (11 comments)
Manhattan Declaration is to Theology what Fox is to Journalism
The December 20, 2009, New York Times ran a lengthy article by David D. Kirkpatrick about Robert P. George, "The Conservative-Christian Big Thinker." The occasion was release of George's "Manhattan Declaration" signed by the......
bettyclermont (2 comments)
Merry Freakin' Christmas: I'm Taking Your Stuff, and you Can't Stop Me!
A humorous look at the larger implications of a seemingly harmless holiday tradition. ......
John Sheirer (1 comment)
Lou Engle, September 25, 2007, Los Angeles: "Holywood"
[This is a partial transcription of a sermon/speech Lou Engle, Founder of TheCall gave on September 25, 2007, in Los Angeles. The full sermon is slightly over 63 minutes. This partial transcript is of......
Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
Rick Warren Tweet complains my videos of his "Hitler/Lenin/Mao" speech are unfair
It's gratifying to know "America's most powerful pastor" seems to have taken notice of my videos, showcasing Rick Warren's 2005 speech at California's Anaheim Angels Stadium, during which Warren outlined a "stealth" program to......
Bruce Wilson (4 comments)
Blurring Reproductive Rights and the Religious Right
The principle of the Hyde Amendment, which restricted federal funds from paying for abortion back in 1976 -- is now seen as an acceptable, "abortion neutral" position for the prochoice Democratic Party. How did......
Frederick Clarkson (0 comments)
Rick Warren Calls on Followers To Be Dedicated as Followers of Lenin and Mao
[note: for more recent news on Rick Warren, see Rick Warren's Dissertation Advisor Leads Network Promoting Uganda Anti-Gay Bill] Video, below contains audio recording, photos, and transcript from Rick Warren's April 17, 2005 speech......
Bruce Wilson (6 comments)
Julius Oyet Touts The College of Prayer
A new Talk To Action story identifies Apostle and bishop Julius Oyet as a major player in the recent effort in the Ugandan parliament to pass a draconian anti-gay bill. In this video [transcript......
Bruce Wilson (1 comment)
Mark Silk on the Hagee / Rodriguez Entente
Mark Silk, at Spiritual Politics has picked up on my notice of the Hagee-Rodriguez embrace and zeroes in on what's certainly one of the most notable aspects: "The key thing to understand about the......
Bruce Wilson (1 comment)
Inscribing Christian Values in our Children Before Birth?
Following the evolution of evangelical discourse as it re-defines homosexuality as evidence of "fallen creation", Terri Murray looks at how the Christian right have shifted their rhetoric to adapt to empirical research showing that......
TMurray (1 comment)
US News & World Report Showcases Creationist Ray Comfort
US News and World Report's Dan Gilgoff has charitably provided evangelist Ray Comfort a media platform in the form of a US News & World "exclusive" through which Comfort defends his efforts to distribute,......
Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
Atheist billboard in Central Florida
The organization "Atheists of Florida" sponsored a billboard promoting atheism in Lakeland, Florida.  I, however, have some concerns. ......
ArchaeoBob (4 comments)
Transcript: Billy Graham and Richard Nixon, February 21, 1973
The following is my own transcript of a 20 minute phone conversation between Richard Nixon and Billy Graham, on February 23, 1973. As far as I am aware this is the only publicly available,......
Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
Rifqa Bary being sent back to Ohio now
Well, there's a change in this case.  After the judge gets immigration documents and so on from the parents, he will send her back. ......
ArchaeoBob (2 comments)

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