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Is Humanism Arrogant?

By TMurray	Tue Apr 14, 2009 at 06:53:39 AM EST	print story

Much to the dismay of theocratic Christians, humanists claim that ethics can be understood without resorting to the supernatural or alleged divine authority from religious texts. Christian theocrats say this is hubris.

Many allegedly "humble" Christians claim that anyone who does not believe that God's wisdom is superior to man's is "arrogant". This inverts the actual situation! Anyone who says that God is all wise must mean either (A) that God is wise because anything God does is wise, or (B) that God is wise because God does wise things. If we accept (A) then anything would be wise simply by virtue of the fact that God does it. So, if God arbitrarily tortures human infants, this is wise. If God says 2 + 2 = 3, this would have to be wise too, since God said it. On the other hand, if God is wise because God does wise things (as in B) then this implies that there is some standard by which we can judge which things are wise, and that this standard is independent of God. It is precisely because God conforms to this independent standard that we can congratulate Him on his wisdom. But then God is redundant, since we already know what is wise anyway, and He just happens to get it right.

In conclusion, one would have to know at least as much as God, if not more, in order to pay Him this "compliment" on His wisdom.

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Is Humanism Arrogant? | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 hidden)

Hmmm.... (none / 0)

I would ask them: "Who is more arrogant- someone who quietly helps a disabled person try to function in spite of their physical limitations, or someone who thinks that they can dictate the life of that same disabled person- including (wrongly) judging that the disability is not real?"

That has been my experience- and the more theocratic, the more likely they will fit my experience. Those "Christians" think they have God's Own Command to pass (false) judgment on others and to tell people they "Know God's plan for your life!!" (said plan turns out to be injustice, misery, and suffering) - and let me tell you- 99.99% of them won't lift a finger to help someone get around a problem- THEY CONDEMN THE PERSON FOR HAVING THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

(Have you ever heard them say: "If you hadn't ___ [fill in the blank with been drinking, used drugs, spent money on something, SINNED, you name it], you wouldn't be in this situation in the first place!"? Never mind said situation might have been caused by someone else doing what they shouldn't have and harming the first person. I've known people whose health and life were ruined by a drunk driver- yet they also got this cr**! I also have met people who were homeless and got this in their face!)

Atheists, humanists, and liberals on the other hand (in my experience), instead of giving someone a handout that has many hidden strings attached (including condemnation for being in a hard place)- they LISTEN, they quietly try to help, and they CARE. For the most part, this has been true of about 95% of the atheists/humanists/liberals I've met.

I would then ask them who is more Christ-like and who is more arrogant.

Oh... and this is the corker. Morality and ethics are culturally defined. Their so-called "God's standards" are what their culture has taught them. That is why those "Christians" are also so judgmental towards other cultures. They confuse their culture with God.

by ArchaeoBob on Tue Apr 14, 2009 at 10:56:45 AM EST

I with you on this one. (none / 0)

Just look to that hideously funny TV ad decrying same-sex marriage. One of the last lines is how these people come together "in love" while they fight tooth and nail to oppress a minority. I'd be left scratching my head on that one if it wasn't just par for the course with the religious right. Moderate Christians and atheists alike should be up in arms in protest to the religious right's usurpation of the faith. I can't think of anything I'd have to complain about re: Christianity, if it wasn't tied to the hip with the radicals who have taken over the conversation for the religious side. Were I a Christian, I'd be plenty pissed about that.

by trog69 on Fri Apr 17, 2009 at 11:46:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

: I am pissed to the point (none / 0)

that it is affecting my enjoyment of life. The woman known as the big Christian where I work volunteered to serve ice cream at the poorest school in the city. These children won this for some academic achievement (of the whole class). All of the children were African American or Hispanic. When we got back the "church lady" told me she wasn't going there anymore because "they just don't appreciate anything". Gee, how does a 6 year old child show appreciation for the free ice cream (we did not pay for it) that they got when she handed them a bowl. And they are so poor that ice cream is a great reward. Honestly, evangelicals are just giving Christ a bad name. I now say... I'm a Christian.... Presbyterian... USA... we have gay people in our church... our published position on abortion is that it is an intensely personal decision and the woman, if she asks, deserves our support and help as she decides.... our pastor went to Harvard. That about does it I think.

by stcrispian on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 09:10:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Evangelical Ethics (none / 0)

Are you suggesting that only one of the options in Euthyphro's dilemma represents the ethical theory of "theocrats?" And how do humanists "understand" ethics?

by SarahFlashing on Fri May 01, 2009 at 02:33:09 PM EST

: To answer your questions (none / 0)

I am suggesting that the theocrats have to answer the dilemma, and a dilemma presents two options, both of which are undesirable/have undesirable consequences for their position.
Humanists understand (why the scare quotes?) ethics as derived from human beings, or from facts about human nature. That is not to automatically commit the naturalistic fallacy. One can understand that facts ought to be RELEVANT to ethics without seeing them as IDENTICAL to ethics or as dictating what we make of those facts. Ethics will always be a value judgement about what is important, or most important for human beings, ... or for being 'human'. The problem with theocrats is that they tend to abdicate all responsibility and pretend that they themselves are not making any such judgments about emphasis.

by TMurray on Mon May 25, 2009 at 04:09:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It isn't the god, it is the people who make it (none / 0)

Too many Christians seem to forget the parable of their creation and how Adam and Eve got their bare butts booted from their Eden. Eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good & evil (one of the attributes of JHVH) settled that for us. The other tree was of immortality. (Something we could create for ourselves in the future.) So It must be the arrogance of people making godly decisions for their own lives that is inherently both insulting and egotistical to the Christian who abdicates that sin. "Playing god" is something we do every time we don't pray for knowledge for a decision in our lives. If we could all be humanists first we could do many good things to and for each other. No religion need be involved but is okay as long as it helps another. But then we run the risk of us being 'helped' by those who would do us harm like the Inquisition who believed the soul was more important than the corruptible body.

by Nightgaunt on Tue May 19, 2009 at 01:42:19 PM EST

: The status of the 'soul' ... (none / 0)

Thanks for your comments. I agree with you. I think, though, that the Inquisition represented not a preference for the 'soul' over the body, but a view of human nature as corrupted or dominated by the sinful flesh, in such a way that extrinsic authority was necessary. Theocrats have always been repelled by the idea that the soul might be able to overpower the flesh and control it - because this would mean that human individuals have self-control and free will, and consequently can be trusted with self-determination. What started with St. Paul and continued with Augustine was a deterministic picture of human nature controlled by carnal nature, such that the only hope for human goodness must lie in external authorities. This way, human salvation could be achieved only by OBEDIENCE to these extrinsic sources of "goodness". If you allow that human individuals are capable of autonomy, you create democratic forms of government. Conservatism and authoritarianism rest of a low estimation of human nature and on the belief that humans do not possess genuine free will.

by TMurray on Mon May 25, 2009 at 04:20:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

RE: (none / 0)

It is precisely because God conforms to this independent standard that we can congratulate Him on his wisdom.
Online fire science degree | International business education

by Nannes on Mon Jun 22, 2009 at 02:29:10 AM EST

RE: (none / 0)

I've known people whose health and life were ruined by a drunk driver- yet they also got this cr**! I also have met people who were homeless and got this in their face!)
Accredited degree | Online college degrees | Life experience degrees

by Nannes on Mon Jun 22, 2009 at 02:30:04 AM EST

I'd have to ask... compared to what? (none / 0)

We have a United States Senator, who talked his finely educated and accomplished wife, into dropping everything, submitting to his every will, bearing four children (who have to listen, endlessly to his talk of his mistress) who look to the same sex parent for the most guidance, and have to live in public with his creepy goings on. Then we find that he visits the C Street House in Washington, where men go to be told they are God, and therefore above any moral code or law. I would have to say God created arrogance and for some reason decided to leave it with the Governor of South Carolina.

by stcrispian on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:51:16 PM EST

Is Humanism Arrogant? | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 hidden)

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