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The Renewalist Christian Explosion Worldwide

Bruce Wilson	print page
Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 05:21:39 PM EST

From World Christian Trends AD 30 - AD 2200 : "The largest and best-known renewal today is often described by the single word Pentecostal, but is more accurately depicted by the title the Pentecostal/Charismatic Renewal in the Holy Spirit. In this survey we also term it, even more accurately, the Pentecostal/Charismatic/Neocharismatic Renewal. This refers to its 3 massive historical surges -- First Wave, Second Wave, and Third Wave."

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The Renewalist Christian Explosion Worldwide | 24 comments (24 topical, 0 hidden)

Antarctica (5.00 / 1)

The AD 2000 figure for Antarctica is a little misleading :). There are no permanent residents on Antarctica (per international treaty), so unless they've been evangelizing the local penguin population, the real number should still be zero!

(Yes, I know there are transient populations of scientists and researchers at research stations there, but including Antarctica in the survey is a bit silly).

by tacitus on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 07:13:56 PM EST

Bunch of liars (5.00 / 1)

Hmmm... with all the fussing about how we're going into a "post-Christian era" and how "Christianity is on the decline!", they throw this out. Kind of contradicts the rantings and railings I've been hearing for years, doesn't it?

Knowing just how much of liars the dominionists are, I seriously doubt ALL of their figures.

To give an example...

I once made the mistake of attending a "revival" many years ago, when I was an Assemblies cult member. I got reams of mailings after that, claiming huge numbers of "converts"- and they listed me among them.

Nothing of the sort happened. I've been Christian since my earliest memories (although thanks to the Assemblies and other dominionist churches, that relationship has been badly damaged) and never made any "statement of faith" during that "Revival", much less went up in an altar call.

I still don't know how they got my name as having "accepted Christ" during the revival. I got mailings from those nutcases for almost a year. I do know that not a fraction of people went up for the "altar call" as they claimed for the service I attended.

I've seen that happen in other venues as well, and heard about the same sort of false claims from other people.

by ArchaeoBob on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 07:33:42 PM EST

Anecdotal evidence, such as from Africa (5.00 / 1)

Suggests a huge movement underway. Revivalist events involving hundreds of thousands are hard to hide.

I know something's afoot even in my relatively secular Massachusetts:

Small megachurches ( 1500-2000 ) are springing up, and even in my town a new Third Wave church is drawing a much bigger crowd than most of the denominational churches in town.

If I wanted to get my demons cast out, I'd have many options within a ten mile radius.

Again, this is MA.

by Bruce Wilson on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 08:00:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

: Massachusetts? (5.00 / 1)

Bruce, Are you sure? How did so many people get to be so stupid? Or were they always this way and just kept it to themselves? Fortunately, Massachusetts is also home to www.yoism.org. Am I allowed to mention that site here?

by Heretic on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:32:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
: Could it be... (5.00 / 1)

... that they've polished their brainwashing and deceptive techniques to the point where they are able to "push the buttons" of more and more people?
That, and with the economy sliding downhill for years (I've been watching the fallout in homelessness and poverty studies/research), people are looking for easy answers. They are then being led in a direction that actually will make their lives worse (but brainwashed into thinking they're somehow doing better or that by passively accepting suffering because of the actions of others, they have hope).
I've been watching the connections between dominionism, poverty, the economy, and the manipulations by the very rich working out in this country. It's not pretty, and believe me, it all ties together.
I might add that while I can accept that the dominionists are increasing in numbers, I seriously doubt the figures on the chart.

by ArchaeoBob on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 01:17:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Untrustworthy (5.00 / 2)

I don't know about the source of this information. I found this page written by the authors of that map above, which is full of rather dubious "statistics".

The numbers they quote are all rather staggering in size and scope, and I fail to see how on earth they can come to these conclusions without a lot of bald assumptions and vague finger-in-the-air estimates. (Either that or they have a humongous support staff, which I sincerely doubt).

The last "fact" listed on the page is risible:

Despite predictions of collapse of religion,long-term trends indicate that Christians and other religionists in AD 2200 are likely to number over 87% of the world 's population.

There is absolutely no way they can predict the percentage of Christians in the world 200 years hence, and given that how wildly optimistic it is, it casts great doubt on the rest of their supposed findings.

by tacitus on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 12:27:03 AM EST

Oops (5.00 / 1)

I misread the fact I quoted -- I failed to notice "and other religionists" in the quote. 87% makes more sense in that case.

My bad.

That said, I don't recall many people making "predictions of collapse of religion". I certainly don't think that will happen any time soon. I do believe that the number of Christians in first-world democratic countries will continue to decline, quite steeply in fact, but that's not the same thing at all.

by tacitus on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 12:40:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Collapse of religion (5.00 / 1)

I did hear that a lot- in the churches we used to attend and when I was an AoG cult member.

They almost seemed to be counting on it as part of the "SIGNS OF THE END!!!!!!" in the cult preaching.

I too doubt that it will happen- however, there might be a significant drop if/once the fundamentalist/dominionist lies and deceptions are exposed to the average person. Many of the walkaways I've met walked after catching their church/pastor in a lie. While I don't wish the pain part of walking on anyone, at the same time it IS a healing that would go far in protecting freedom and truth; thus I hope and pray that this exposure happens soon.

by ArchaeoBob on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 01:06:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

and for those who falter- (5.00 / 1)

ChiCom methods of breaking people down await them almost surely help keep them in line. http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/4/6/184030/0109 Nearly identical methods are employed in this regard.

by zowie on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 06:53:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That doesn't surprise me... (5.00 / 1)

Given how much Christian right leaders such as Rick Warren and Doug Coe adulate communist revolutionary leaders such as Mao and Lenin.

by Bruce Wilson on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 07:35:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Indeed- down to the imagery (5.00 / 1)

Indeed- I wonder if they even watch Communist music videos lol- compare http://www.acquiretheevidence.com/sources/dayone-luce-revolution. html and http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/media_video/carman/index.html http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/media_video/america_again/ind ex.html to these videos from the Northern side of the 38th Parallel, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N6Kmie-yyo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwkjVmrkCzA - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3TVdK2ZMRI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDdeJzNMMOo - Kim Jong Il would be impressed indeed- except Carman and other evangelists are more into rock and pop music while the DPRK likes the choir music kicked down to it by their Soviet predecessors. The visuals are similar and the effect is the same- to overwhelm and tantalise the sense and send shivers through one's spine.

by zowie on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 11:02:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you very much for the reference vids ! (5.00 / 1)

I can use those. And, BTW, I've actually got footage from a Bible-printing ministry in Japan, which smuggles Bibles into China, whose leader says he's inspired by communist propaganda. It's footage from an interview on a Japanese evangelist's TV show.

by Bruce Wilson on Tue Apr 07, 2009 at 06:11:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

: This is only the tip of the iceberg- (5.00 / 1)

There are HUNDREDS of North Korean music videos on Youtube, just I just picked some of the ones that resemble the best as I can the same motifs the dominionists put on their media. (although Carman and his ilk have yet to combine unusual synth and female singing like the Pochonbo Electric Ensemble in the following two clips- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58bMFEqTKTE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUgGaksNoVI (although the outfits somewhat resemble some of the flashy ones on TBN lol) but just like the German pseudocrusader video, the North Koreans also use modern dance to promote Songun (Military First) and Juche (Self-reliance- the cornerstone of Kimilsungism) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD_hTYjDO3k but the Dominionists have yet to match the spectacular might of the North Korean Mass Games- (Part 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Daxd7ULg3VM (Part 9 - Military martial arts demonstration- lots of board breaking- the dominionist example would be Chuck Norris and his allies The Power Team, powerlifters who break boards and do strongman tricks while telling their audience dominionist fundamentalism needs to be in schools) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjfYN5ZOhso

by zowie on Tue Apr 07, 2009 at 10:34:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Robert Jay Lifton on Thought Reform (5.00 / 1)

and Totalism rickross

by Heretic on Wed Apr 08, 2009 at 01:40:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Stuffing reality into ideology (5.00 / 1)

"The aim of those who try to control thought is always the same. They find one single explanation of the world, one system of thought and action that will (they believe) cover everything; and then they try to impose that on all thinking people." -- Gilbert Highet

by Heretic on Wed Apr 08, 2009 at 01:51:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Recognition (5.00 / 1)

I recognized some of the techniques in that article- I experienced milder versions of some of them while I was in the Assemblies (and heard similar things as well). They've been doing that stuff for decades now.

Too bad we couldn't sue that whole church for what they put us through and the lasting damage they caused (I'm still working on things and learning new things about what happened- over 26 years later!)

What I find ironic is that the Chinese government is the MOST Social-Spencerist Capitalism-practicing bunch I've ever heard of. They may TALK communism, but what is practiced is far from it.

(Communism wouldn't be any better IMO!)

by ArchaeoBob on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 10:09:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What China is doing- (5.00 / 1)

after Chairman Mao and the Gang of Four and Deng Xiaoping took over, the government of China took over a different course. Even the USSR under Gorbachev had gulags, until towards the end, and Yeltsin soon took charge.

by zowie on Tue Apr 07, 2009 at 02:26:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You might find this funny in light of... (5.00 / 1)

this conversation.

Last night I was accused of pushing communism.

I was explaining why we need to reduce the gap between the rich and poor, and that the rich needed to be made to pull their fair share of the load- and that if the rich made do with just a little less and the "wealth" was added to the lower income brackets, it would raise the standard of living significantly (which, I might add, could benefit the rich!)

The person said that wealth redistribution was communism and was not happy with what I was saying.

Funny, but all governments in every culture have as a core function the redistribution of wealth.

Willful ignorance, or brainwashing? I suspect the latter.

by ArchaeoBob on Tue Apr 07, 2009 at 10:27:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

: and- (5.00 / 1)

National Socialism (Nazism) and Communism (as it was practiced- real communism is a utopia- a real neverneverland or 'noplace') are all "socialist" in a sense- its only the outward appearence that is slightly different- total governmental control of industry, religion, press, etc. except instead of the swastika you have the hammer and sickle or in case of the DPRK the hammer, brush, and sickle.

by zowie on Tue Apr 07, 2009 at 10:39:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Reason why its spreading: (none / 0)

1. No complex theology to wade through for new believers- emphasis on emotionalism 2. No complex theology to be mastered to gain certification and ordination as a pastor/minister. Dogemperor on Dailykos and Talk2Action wrote on how training for the ministry is done through "missionary mills" - the NAR and AoG 's certification is designed to crank out 3. Propagation tactics taken almost verbatim from the Communist Party and Scientology (steeplejacking and dirty tricks), not to mention brainwashing techniques and mental breakdown techniques in their kiddie gulags 4. Excellent use of media, music and visuals to tittilate the mind (TBN, Daystar, CBN, Ron Luce, etc.) 5. Ideology is tied to semineofascistic military industrial complex elements who fund it liberally, and allow gross constitutional violations of seperation of church and state to pass by (http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org for more information on this)

by zowie on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 12:02:46 PM EST

: I might add... (none / 0)

easy packaged answers to hard and complex questions, which don't require thought or introspection.
Even if those packaged answers are actually wrong and based upon false or flawed theology.
I also observed while I was a cult member that their preaching tended to remove guilt from the guilty and to punish (and heap guilt/stress on) the innocent. Believe me- it's easier to blame yourself for something that happened to you (even if deliberately done by others), rather than ferret out the real causes and try to deal with them.
American society and it's focus on the individual tends to make trying to find the REAL cause of personal suffering an uphill battle (a fight against the current, really!)

by ArchaeoBob on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 01:23:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pentecostals (none / 0)

are not all conservatives. The Pentecostals of Latin America are mostly liberation theologists like blacks.

by strayroots on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 02:01:39 PM EST

Well, OK (none / 0)

I haven't noticed any wide stream of Liberation Theology Pentecostals in Latin America. Can you suggest some sources where I can read about that ?

Best, BruceW

by Bruce Wilson on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 04:07:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

: Likewise (none / 0)

I too would be interested in learning about that- knowing how liberation theology has been vilified in the pentecostal/fundamentalist/dominionist churches around here (and elsewhere that I've read about).
The liberation theology I've read comes closer to the Gospel I believe in, although not in all ways.

by ArchaeoBob on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 06:12:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Renewalist Christian Explosion Worldwide | 24 comments (24 topical, 0 hidden)

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