NAR leaders LAUGH about destruction wrought by Hurricane Sandy
Christian Dem in NC printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Wed Nov 14, 2012 at 06:39:03 PM EST

If you want to get a picture of how fundamentally sick and twisted the New Apostolic Reformation is at bottom, I offer as an example a video recently released by Rick Joyner.

Yesterday, Joyner released a "webinar" with another prominent NAR leader, Bob Jones (no relation to the guy who founded Bob Jones University).  Both Joyner and Jones are reckoned as "prophets" in the movement.  Jones repeated what is apparently an article of faith on the religious right--that Hurricane Sandy and the nor'easter that came behind it were God's way of punishing the Northeast for legalizing same-sex marriage.  He sarcastically characterized Sandy as a "blessing."  And he and Joyner actually laughed about it.  That's right, LAUGHED.  People for the American Way got a clip (they start laughing at about the 45-second mark).


Watch the whole thing (if you can stand it) here, and pile up the dislikes.

I've seen some pretty outrageous stuff from the religious right.  But this is the first clip in awhile that literally has me shaking with anger.  There are thousands of people still without power.  In some parts of New York, the damage is so severe that ConEd won't even turn the power back on unless the house has been certified safe by an electrician.  And these bastards have the nerve to laugh about it?  Charlotte may be a big city, but I don't think there's anywhere in this town where you can buy cojones that big.

Crash Joyner's Inbox at info at morningstarministries dot org.

or does that look like a mug of beer in front of Joyner? ;-)

by Villabolo on Wed Nov 14, 2012 at 08:39:43 PM EST
Don't know what is in there but that is a Masters souvenir mug.  Hope they haven't submitted to their apostolic authority.

by ulyankee on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 10:14:16 AM EST

I think it is important (for those who have the time and can bear it) to view their pronouncements in context.  The Right Wing Watch clip makes them sound like a host of other Religious Right leaders who are saying the same thing about how Sandy was sent as judgment on the Northeast and Obama is a biblically evil leader.  But these guys go much further.

One of my greatest concerns about the NAR is that they are poised to assume a relative vacuum of leadership that has opened up among the Religious Right.  And as many of T2A readers know, these are not "fundamentalists" per se.

Even at the very beginning of the full video, David Yarnes tells the audience that they are hearing directly from God and that they have a message for the MorningStar "tribe."  He then characterizes Bob Jones as receiving "downloads" from heaven, and that they are directly "experiencing heaven."  They believe that they are an elite "overcoming" group with an especial, dedicated, open portal directly from the throneroom of God, to use their terminology.  This is the same group that has "prophesied" a coming civil war between the "blues" and the "grays."  If there really is a "civil war" (even in a metaphoric or cultural sense) these guys--or more accurately, their followers--will be on the front lines because they believe they are called to rule and reign not just for God but AS GOD.  I suspect that the "heroes" getting ready for the "next move" that Bob Jones saw in his "vision" are the "new breed" or "manifest sons of God" which they believe will be super-anointed and even immortalized as they corporately incarnate the return of Christ and exert their reign over the earth in their theology. At 21:30 Jones says, "I don't believe there is going to be any harvest until God's government is in control."  In NAR theology, God's government is comprised of NAR apostles and prophets.  And the "mature sons and daughters" he talks about around 40 minutes in are literal political leaders who are under NAR apostolic authority (listen through 44 minutes for the whole context).

The NAR is not as exclusively partisan as some other Religious Right groups... they are OPPORTUNIST and will cooperate with ANY political leader or party that allows them access.  I have a recording from several years ago where another NAR prophet laid hands on a Democratic governor.  The same prophet said in another preaching that he appreciated GW Bush but that he wanted to disciple the next president.  Party does not really matter to these guys in the same sense as other Religious Right figures who have completely fused the Republican party with Christianity.  Republicans in the current political environment are much more likely to cooperate with the NAR but if that ever changes, believe me, the NAR will be right there with Democrats or anyone else who will give them the time of day.  

However, Obama has closed down that access (see the recent posts about Samuel Rodriguez) and based on my personal experience and observations of the NAR THAT is what makes him "evil"--the fact that he has rejected their apostolic authority.  If he was willing to continue working with them they would probably give him more of a pass.  The election discussion isn't until 45:40.  Rick Joyner admits he didn't get a "word" on the election and Bob Jones said he "read too much into" what he thought he heard from God.

There are a lot more NAR buzz words in here, like "activation," Bob Jones' "Shepherd's Rod" several times, implicit references to Seven Mountains, etc.  I understand why RWW excerpted what they did from near the end of the video but there is MUCH MUCH more here than just that.

by ulyankee on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 10:10:18 AM EST

"There's more here than what was in the RWW clip."

That's why I wish that RWW would post unedited videos in their entirety and put time markers for whatever point they're trying to make.

by Villabolo on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 02:46:20 PM EST

The treatment of President Obama is standard operating procedure for them.  As long as you're a candidate for steeplejacking/brainwashing, they're friendly.  As soon as they realize you will never turn, then the mask drops off and you see their real faces.  The fact that he's an avowed Christian (even though they do reject the UCC as being "really Christian") and also very much a part of the capitalistic system (he's rich after all), are major points in his favor as a target for steeplejacking.  If he wasn't rich or was not a "Out" Christian (IMO one of the rare REAL Christians in spite of his public pronouncements), their response to him would have been completely different.

The parent church for the NAR, the Assemblies of God, after all, DID teach that ordinary people were "the world" and you were only supposed to interact with "the world" in order to convert them, and their SOP is only an extension of that belief/behavior.

(That's why I will never be friends with a dominionist, because I know their "friendship" is really false and only meant to try to win converts.)

by ArchaeoBob on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 11:03:11 AM EST

Lance Walnau, Dominionisms' chief doctrinal/ideological architect, has stated their true goal, and it is not necessarily one of converting everyone to their religion but one of domination by a small elite over everyone else, irrespective of their personal beliefs:

"Joseph did not really impact Egypt and Daniel didn't impact Babylon by converting people to becoming hebrews. And this is the amazing thing, it only takes 3 to 5 percent of a population to form a tipping point that creates a culture...because the minority, occupying the high places, are stronger than the majority, that are irrelevant". ailpage#t=372s

by Villabolo on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 03:25:05 PM EST
is their chief doctrinal/ideological architect.  You can trace most of it back to him.

If doctrine wasn't important, they wouldn't be advocating the death penalty for apostasy and push things like creationism and teaching religion in the schools.

As far as the comment about Joseph and Daniel, those are the words of just one person.  It doesn't reflect the reality that we see every day.

by ArchaeoBob on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 11:13:25 AM EST

Listen from 45 minutes to the end where they say that Obama could "turn" and "do things that Romney couldn't do" if they pray for him.  Again, I think they believe they could actually gain access that they would not have gotten with Romney due to his Mormonism.  Joyner actually says that "Obama could become our greatest president" and that he is "so excited about this time."  I suspect that this is contingent on the President submitting to their authority in some way.  Jones is more pessimistic, but Joyner (possibly through the Oak Initiative or another NAR front group?) seems to indicate that President Obama could become "born again" which REALLY means that he could come under their influence.

by ulyankee on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 10:23:27 AM EST

I recall, a couple of years ago, hearing Lou Engle make a similar statement about how Obama could become a great president. He said this in the context of the abortion issue.

A subterranean stream in the collective consciousness of the NAR is their teaching that politicians, and others in power, will be given a chance to convert to their way or else be "pushed out of the way".

by Villabolo on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:20:38 PM EST

I believe the new DSM V has a diagnostic category for religious wackadoodlery  and people who believe they have a hot line to the throne-room of God... religious psychotic narcissism...
Seriously sick people :-|

by PastorJennifer on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 04:40:56 AM EST
I've read that people with certain issues in their temporal lobes suffer from Hyper-moralism, hyper-religiosity, widening of effect (Seeing patterns and significance where there's none) and other symptoms.

by Villabolo on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 04:16:06 PM EST

As I googled the topic, "Is God Judging America?" I got 11,900,000 results in 0.59 seconds. It is certainly a hot topic. However, it was rather sickening and disappointing, to say the least, to see such "leaders" as Joyner and Jones rejoicing over the misfortunes of others. That is not the mark of the true sons of God. Andrew Wommack, like him or not, had a different view when Hurricane Katrina hit (Hurricane Katrina, the Judgment of God? . Would Jesus Christ have laughed at people who were in pain. He even encourages us to give water and food to our enemies. May the true sons of God stand and be counted! The sons of God

by sonsofGod on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 11:26:28 AM EST

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by dennishobson on Wed May 15, 2013 at 08:44:47 AM EST

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