We Can Add New Teachings To The Bible, Says New Apostolic Reformation Leader Peter Wagner
Bruce Wilson printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Tue May 15, 2012 at 07:53:58 AM EST
[NAR leaders, who claim to be able to work miracles via their iPhones, have ties to major U.S. politicians including Sarah Palin, Rick Perry, and Newt Gingrich and have led politicized prayer events attended by Senators Sam Brownback and Jim DeMint. To underscore the political nature of the NAR, Wagner Leadership Institute faculty member Julius Oyet claims to have helped conceive of Uganda's Anti Homosexuality Bill, and WLI teacher Mary Glazier, a longtime friend to Sarah Palin according to Charisma magazine, claims to have in 1995 hounded out of Alaska a women accused of witchcraft.]  

For any religious tradition with a heavily political bent, the ability to receive from God new teachings that have the force of scripture is powerful - for example, enemies can be targeted and demonized with ease. On February 3, 2008, C. Peter Wagner, perhaps the most significant leader in the movement he has named and played a key role in organizing, the New Apostolic Reformation, led a ceremony at the Everett, WA-based Sonrise Chapel near Seattle, for the commissioning of ICA apostle Dan Hammer as the chancellor of the newly-founded Wagner Leadership Institute Seattle. Prior to commissioning Hammer, Wagner declared that "the Holy Spirit still speaks to us today and we can hear from the Lord, and He gives us information, actually, that you can't find in any of the 66 books of the Bible--even though none of it contradicts the Bible."

One of the more benign examples of how this can work in practice can be seen in footage from the NAR's 2010 Convergence conference in Cedar Hills, TX, during which apostle Ed Silvoso--who convened the original 1999 meeting that led to the formation of what may be the movement's biggest apostolic network, the International Coalition of Apostles--released an "anointing for extraordinary miracles", so that movement members would be able to conduct miracles via their modern technological appliances, such as iPhones and cellphones.  

The main body in Wagner's movement that such divine revelation, which can allow for the introduction of new Christian scripture and practices, flows through is the elite Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders. One of Wagner's 26-odd ACPE prophets is The Call founder Lou Engle, known for his rhetoric against gay marriage (Engle staged a May 2010 Uganda rally featuring key figures promoting Uganda's so-called "kill the gays" bill) and legalized abortion.

Engle, who has predicted that legalized abortion demands repayment in blood and will cause a second American civil war, rhetorically targeted late-term abortion doctor George Tiller shortly prior to Tiller's assassination.

In 2007, at a Kansas City The Call rally, Lou Engle declared his "Doctrine of the Shedding of Innocent Blood", that Engle elaborated in a written document [PDF of document] originally published on The Call's website, which stated,

"Surely blood requires blood in God's judgment. God so highly values humanity that He protects it with His severe judgment. A day of reckoning is set if man does not obey Him... Where there is shedding of innocent blood, there is no atonement for the land. There is a blood pollution problem on America's soil. The most "dangerous terrorist" is not Islam, but God. One of God's names is "the Avenger of Blood." Have you worshipped [sic] that God yet?"

Because of Engle's status as a prophet in ACPE, we can reasonably assume that Engle's teaching was considered within the NAR movement to have the force of Biblical scripture. Later, in a 2009 post, Engle compared late-term abortion doctor George Tiller to an Auschwitz death camp worker, writing,

"Tiller is being charged with 19 counts of illegal late-term abortions after he claimed ignorance of the Born Alive Infants Protection Act, a federal bill signed into law in 2002 that protects children born alive from infanticide by abortion doctors.


Why should an abortion doctor be found guilty for criminal activity and a governor who has done everything to cover and protect that crime be exalted?  Was it only the Auschwitz death camp workers who were guilty of killing the Jews or were the political leaders who sanctioned it guilty as well?  The answer is obvious to anyone who has a heart."

Little more than two months later, Dr. Tiller was gunned down in the lobby of his church, by antiabortion activist Scott Roeder.

In his Feb. 3, 2008 talk at Sonrise Chapel, during a question-and-answer period, Peter Wagner described how, although there is nothing in the Bible condemning abortion, the Holy Spirit tells Wagner's prophets that "abortion is murder":

Questioner, to C. Peter Wagner:  I'm interested in knowing--coming from an intellectiual background, could you give us a little background as to how, when that intellectual background clashed with faith? I don't know if I'm getting across...

Wagner: Oh boy. Well, see, that's a big question, see, and you're absolutely right. Not so much clashed with faith but clashed with power.

Questioner: Right.

C. Peter Wagner: The power of the Holy Spirit. See, I had to go through a huge paradigm shift.

Q: And I don't believe it should clash, but it seems that it does.

Wagner - And, you know where it clashes the most? Man, you know, that question you asked, I could talk a long time about that but, this will be the last question, OK? Not that I'm going to talk long, but then we'll move on.

OK. Do you know what the biggest clash was? My intellectual background taught me--it was in religion, you know. All my degrees are in religion. So my intellectual background told me that this [holds up Bible] was the word of God, and once this was revealed, God had revealed everything that he wanted to reveal. OK? And so, from then on, all we had to do to progress was to know more and more and more about this.

Then I started--then, it came to my attention that when God, when the Holy Spirit quit inspiring the written word, he kept revealing new things through what we call the Rhema Word. See? Honestly, this is a , this was a huge, huge thing for me as an intellectual to try to accept. See? That the Holy Spirit still speaks to us today and we can hear from the Lord, and He gives us information, actually, that you can't find in any of the 66 books of the Bible--even though none of it contradicts the Bible. If the Holy Spirit ever says anything that contradicts the Bible, then it's false, see?

But there's a lot of truth that the Holy Spirit gives us that the Bible doesn't even touch, doesn't even bring up, see? And so, I mean, like I say... You know, a big one that the Bible doesn't even touch is abortion. Nothing in the Bible that condemns abortion. But the Holy Spirit has revealed to us that abortion is murder. See?

Now, that's not in the Bible. There are principles in the Bible that you can put together and make a case for it, but you look up the word 'abortion' in your Concordance--it's not there. See? And, so, all I'm saying is that's a good, live example of something that we have received from the Holy Spirit that is now legitimate.. But the Holy Spirit has revealed to us that abortion is murder. See? And, so, all I'm saying is that's a good, live example of something that we have received from the Holy Spirit that is now legitimate. Does that contradict the Bible? Not at all. As a matter of fact, the Bible reinforces it.

Although Wagner's teaching breaks with centuries of established Christian teaching, the apostles and prophets of his NAR nonetheless have significant ties to national-level American politicians, such as Sarah Palin, Rick Perry, and Newt Gingrich, and they have prayed with, and appeared in public with, President Barack Obama and First Lady Michele Obama. This May 2012, Christianity Today featured one of the top female leaders of the NAR on the front cover of the magazine's print issue.

[video, below: beginning roughly at 55:08, top New Apostolic Reformation theorist C. Peter Wagner, who has served as a top "convening apostle" in the NAR movement, describes how prophets in his movement can receive new revelation, from God, that can augment Biblical scripture.]

The concept of adding new teachings is fairly convenient for the NAR, and does indeed allow them to demonize their critics with ease.

by khughes1963 on Tue May 15, 2012 at 12:51:13 PM EST
has been spot-on, spiritually since the Holy Spirit seems to be divulging the very information that NAR leadership has espoused as truth to their congregations, and they've been correct all this time.

Just imagine how embarrassed Rev. Pastor Apostle Wagner would be now if the Holy Spirit had disagreed with any of their tenets?

by trog69 on Thu May 17, 2012 at 06:25:00 AM EST
Of course, C. Wagner is saying that he's been listening to the Holy Spirit all this time, thus their tenets of faith. I liked my previous stance on this; too bad it's not relevant. hehehe.

by trog69 on Thu May 17, 2012 at 06:27:59 AM EST

When I was in the Assemblies, one of the big issues they had with certain groups was "adding to the Bible"... they quoted the Revelation of St. John and it's curse on anyone who "adds to the words" - as if it meant the entire Bible and used it against anyone who, for instance, accepted the Apocrypha or had other books besides the Bible (as in the Mormons).

Now Wagner says this.  The opposite of what was preached 30 years ago.

by ArchaeoBob on Tue May 15, 2012 at 08:25:53 PM EST

...if 'revelation' from the 'Holy Spirit' adds to the Bible but doesn't contradict it, and the Bible reinforces that 'revelation', how would one know that if the Bible doesn't mention the subject in the first place?  

by Browsercat on Tue May 15, 2012 at 09:56:16 AM EST
I haven't run across C. Peter Wagner elaborating any further on the subject, so I can't answer this.

by Bruce Wilson on Tue May 15, 2012 at 11:38:24 AM EST

What the interpreter chooses to use from the Bible to reinforce his or her "revelation from the Holy Spirit" is of their own choosing, and may be something related to, say, compensation for accidentally killing a pregnant servant compared to a woman servant who isn't pregnant, with uncleanness plus compensation vs. compensation alone, and "therefore" it's reinforcing the "prophecy" that abortion is murder. That is only a non-Biblical example, but you get the idea. When one is in charge of interpreting the Bible (even literal readings need explanation/interpretation), whether it agrees with what you say now, what you say later, is up to you. Any inconvenient records are the work of demons interfering with the internet, recording, or printing processes.

by arachne646 on Wed May 16, 2012 at 11:08:56 AM EST
how the biblical texts were cobbled together by committee votes over hundreds of years, with gospels flying in and out of the accepted finished product, one could say that the Holy Spirit could have done a better job of managing it all.  

by BGBlade on Wed May 16, 2012 at 04:29:16 PM EST

Normally at this point I would make some sort of tech joke about the Iphone and flash, but this is just silly. Also seeing as we can add to the bible, can we expect to hear Jesus sound off on all the political talking points?

by Hirador on Wed May 16, 2012 at 07:51:15 PM EST

What about the 100,000 Iraqis, the innocents in Afghanistan? etc  these people are always fuming about abortion but have no problem with participating in the american empire's bloodletting - Hypocrites - a NAR influenced church in my area has numerous recent conflict vets and they're lifted up as heroes that did "God's" work...

And Engle's coming "civil war" - he and his followers will be the first (if not the instigators) to join the right wing side of that conflict to fulfill their christian nationalist bloodlust revenge against everyone they consider 'not-real-americans'  

by AkronAndy on Sat May 19, 2012 at 08:01:46 AM EST

From my perspective, to harp on abortion but neglect U.S. involvement in unjust wars, support for regimes with terrible human rights records, and so on, is inconsistent and hypocritical.

by Bruce Wilson on Sat May 19, 2012 at 06:03:33 PM EST

WWW Talk To Action

Thomas More Was No Patron Of Religious Freedom
The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) is preparing to kick off its annual Fortnight for Freedom. This year the two weeks of......
By Frank Cocozzelli (0 comments)
Falling Starr
Reports from around the nation are reporting Ken Starr, President of Baylor University, has been fired as head of the Baptist school.  Other stories......
By wilkyjr (4 comments)
Bluegrass Bonanza: Ky. Theocrat Loses Grip On Statehouse Seat
Political news of late has been dominated by three people - Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. They've certainly provided good copy, but......
By Rob Boston (2 comments)
Political Piety Panned: We Don't Need A 'God's Party'
Every few years, a political pundit comes along and proclaims that the Religious Right is dead or on the verge of dying. I started......
By Rob Boston (7 comments)
Trump Campaign Tied To 2nd White Nationalist Party Leader
Even as Donald Trump seeks to tack to the center, and leave behind his earlier, wildly controversial statements on Hispanics and Muslims, mounting evidence......
By Bruce Wilson (4 comments)
Religious Rightism in the Democratic Party has Consequences
Those of us who write about the Religious Right and related matters often find ourselves wishing that we were wrong. Back in 2011 we......
By Frederick Clarkson (9 comments)
No Moore, Please: Ala. Chief Justice May Be Removed From The Bench
Word broke late Friday night that Roy Moore, chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, may be on the verge of losing his job......
By Rob Boston (4 comments)
Road To Nowhere?: Ky. Officials Ramp Up Support For `Ark Park'
Officials in Kentucky have apparently decided that they're willing to endure a large amount of embarrassment if it will bring some mediocre jobs to......
By Rob Boston (6 comments)
Cruz Super-PAC Head Promotes "Biblical" Slavery For Non-Christians
Since 2013 (and with growing interest, especially since Ted Cruz mounted his bid for the presidency), various authors have sought to address Cruz' ties......
By Bruce Wilson (5 comments)
One Simple Question for Ted Cruz
As the 2016 presidential primary season moves into the media savvy states of New York (April 19) and California (June 7) a question is......
By Frank Cocozzelli (9 comments)
"Dominionism" - Correction Please
Correction Sent to Christianity Today, April 11, 2016 Regarding the article: "Stop Calling Ted Cruz a Dominionist: The Christian candidate's faith influences his platform,......
By Chip Berlet (6 comments)
South Carolina School Continues to Dominate Church-State Decisions
Bob Jones University has a rich history.  It was a launching pad for GOP Presidential candidates until George W. Bush apologized for the visit.......
By wilkyjr (4 comments)
Privilege, Not Persecution: It's Time For Fundamentalist Christians To Stop Whining
Over the weekend, a movie called "God's Not Dead 2" opened in theaters around the nation. I haven't seen the film and don't intend......
By Rob Boston (2 comments)
Fifty Catholic Right Leaders Endorse Ted Cruz
The National Catholic Reporter recently reported  that a group of fifty conservative Catholics led by Catholic neocon Robert P. George and former Virginia Attorney......
By Frank Cocozzelli (4 comments)
Viva (Crime-Free) Las Vegas!: More Hooey From David Barton
Ersatz historian and "Christian nation" booster David Barton is at it again. This time he's claiming that the city of Las Vegas cut violent......
By Rob Boston (1 comment)

Alternate economy medical treatment
Dogemperor wrote several times about the alternate economy structure that dominionists have built.  Well, it's actually made the news.  Pretty good article, although it doesn't get into how bad people could be (have been)......
ArchaeoBob (2 comments)
Evidence violence is more common than believed
Think I've been making things up about experiencing Christian Terrorism or exaggerating, or that it was an isolated incident?  I suggest you read this article (linked below in body), which is about our great......
ArchaeoBob (6 comments)
Central Florida Sheriff Preached Sermon in Uniform
If anyone has been following the craziness in Polk County Florida, they know that some really strange and troubling things have happened here.  We've had multiple separation of church and state lawsuits going at......
ArchaeoBob (2 comments)
Demon Mammon?
An anthropologist from outer space might be forgiven for concluding that the god of this world is Mammon. (Or, rather, The Market, as depicted by John McMurtry in his book The Cancer Stage of......
daerie (2 comments)
Anti-Sharia Fever in Texas: This is How It Starts
The mayor of a mid-size Texan city has emerged in recent months as the newest face of Islamophobia. Aligning herself with extremists hostile to Islam, Mayor Beth Van Duyne of Irving, Texas has helped......
JSanford (8 comments)
Evangelicals Seduced By Ayn Rand Worship Crypto-Satanism, Suggest Scholars
[update: also see my closely related stories, "Crypto-Cultists" and "Cranks": The Video Paul Ryan Hoped Would Go Away, and The Paul Ryan/Ayn Rand/Satanism Connection Made Simple] "I give people Ayn Rand with trappings" -......
Bruce Wilson (10 comments)
Ted Cruz Anointed By Pastor Who Says Jesus Opposed Minimum Wage, and Constitution Based on the Bible
In the video below, from a July 19-20th, 2013 pastor's rally at a Marriott Hotel in Des Moines, Iowa, Tea Party potentate Ted Cruz is blessed by religious right leader David Barton, who claims......
Bruce Wilson (3 comments)
Galt and God: Ayn Randians and Christian Rightists Expand Ties
Ayn Rand's followers find themselves sharing a lot of common ground with the Christian Right these days. The Tea Party, with its stress on righteous liberty and a robust form of capitalism, has been......
JSanford (7 comments)
Witchhunts in Africa and the U.S.A.
Nigerian human rights activist Leo Igwe has recently written at least two blog posts about how some African Pentecostal churches are sending missionaries to Europe and the U.S.A. in an attempt to "re-evangelize the......
Diane Vera (3 comments)
Charles Taze Russell and John Hagee
No doubt exists that Texas mega-church Pastor John Hagee would be loathe to be associated with the theology of Pastor C.T. Russell (wrongly credited with founding the Jehovah's Witnesses) but their theological orbits, while......
COinMS (3 comments)
A death among the common people ... imagination.
Or maybe my title would better fit as “Laws, Books, where to find, and the people who trust them.”What a society we've become!The wise ones tell us over and over how the more things......
Arthur Ruger (10 comments)
Deconstructing the Dominionists, Part VI
This is part 6 of a series by guest front pager Mahanoy, originally dated November 15, 2007 which I had to delete and repost for technical reasons. It is referred to in this post,......
Frederick Clarkson (3 comments)
Republican infighting in Mississippi
After a bruising GOP runoff election for U.S. Senator, current MS Senator Thad Cochran has retained his position and will face Travis Childers (Democrat) in the next senate election. The MS GOP is fractured......
COinMS (4 comments)
America's Most Convenient Bank® refuses to serve Christians
Representatives of a well known faith-based charitable organization were refused a New Jersey bank’s notarization service by an atheist employee. After inquiring about the nature of the non-profit organization and the documents requiring......
Jody Lane (9 comments)
John Benefiel takes credit for GOP takeover of Oklahoma
Many of you know that Oklahoma has turned an unrecognizable shade of red in recent years.  Yesterday, one of the leading members of the New Apostolic Reformation all but declared that he was responsible......
Christian Dem in NC (4 comments)

More Diaries...

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments, posts, stories, and all other content are owned by the authors. Everything else 2005 Talk to Action, LLC.