A Talk to Action Anthology on Nullification and Secession
Frederick Clarkson printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 06:14:07 PM EST
Over the past few months a number of posts have addressed the growing movement advocating the nullification of federal laws and even secession of states from the union. Below is an anthology, in chronological order, of our coverage so far.  I will update it from time-to-time. -- FC
Ron Paul Curriculum Launched by Reconstructionist Gary North and Neo-Confederate Thomas Woods
by Rachel Tabachnick   April 9, 2013

Thomas E. Woods, Jr. and the Neo-Confederate Catholic Right
by Frank Cocozzelli   May 1, 2013

Why Nullification Matters
by Frank Cocozzelli   May 12, 2013

Refuting Nullification, Part One
by Frank Cocozzelli   May 19, 2013

Refuting Nullification, Part Two
by Frank Cocozzelli   June 1, 2013

Thomas E. Woods, Jr. And the Right to Oppress
by Frank Cocozzelli   June 17, 2013

If you think this material is important, and you are on Twitter, please tweet or retweet this post!



Display:
Just what I needed and just in time.

I was in a multi-day online argument recently with someone who didn't think the Bill of Rights applied to the states and didn't think the 14th amendment should have been applied to it. I guess he wanted to junk the Bill of Rights at the state level so that the states could have their little theocracies. IMO, there is no such thing as a right to violate rights, whether by the Feds or  any government whatever. These articles look like a more radical version of what my opponent was saying.

by Mel M on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 09:56:22 PM EST

The Bill of Rights is applied to the States THROUGH the Fourteenth Amendment, stating  certain basic rights for all, no matter what state in which you reside .  Prior to the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment, the Bill of Rights did not apply to the States and only bound the Federal government.  (For example, prior to the 1830s, well before the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment, there were, quite legitimately under existing law, STATE established churches.)

There are two things about this that I think are critical: 1)  State established churches were not invalidated by law, but by the fact that views towards other faiths became more tolerant due to explosion of denominations and types of worship during the Second Great Awakening; and 2) the Bill of Rights does not prevent the States from establishing GREATER protections under State Constitutions.    

by John Minehan on Fri Jun 21, 2013 at 12:41:31 PM EST
Parent

And the First Amendment is not the only lens through which we should view the matter of the rights of conscience, or religious freedom.

The federal Constitution made no mention of God, churches or religion, except to state that there shall be no religious test for public office in the U.S.  This was a principle that is clear as a Liberty Bell:  If there is no religious test for public office, that too means that there can be no religious test for citizenship and the right to vote. This was understandably upsetting for those who believed in the need for established churches or at least a recognized public role for religion. The lack of a mention of God and the barring of religious tests for office was perhaps the greatest source of opposition to ratification when it was debated in the state legislatures, as Cornell historians Kramnick and Moore wrote in their book The Godless Constitution.  

It is also true that a deal was made in which the Jeffersonians, including Jefferson himself, agreed to support ratification if there would be a later amendment to further clarify the matter.  He did, and Madison later provided us with the First Amendment.

And while it is true that it took time for the basic principles of the rights of conscience to take hold in the culture and to bring the state constitutions and laws into conformity with the federal constitution, eventually they did. But everyone at the time knew that it was not just about the First Amendment. And anyone today who does not know or get that, is missing an important part of the story.

by Frederick Clarkson on Sat Jun 22, 2013 at 08:41:02 PM EST
Parent




"IMO, there is no such thing as a right to violate rights, whether by the Feds or  any government whatever."

This is supported by the Ninth Amendment and Tenth Amendment:

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The States are free to state more rights than the Bill of Rights enshrines but cannot reduce the basic rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.

by John Minehan on Fri Jun 21, 2013 at 12:50:20 PM EST

You have flooded this site with a large number of comments, even posting your own diary and then adding five comments to your own diary.  I think you are confused about where you are and the purposes of this site.  In any case, you do not get to join this site for the sole purpose flooding the zone with dense, repetitive defenses of Thomas Woods.    

by Frederick Clarkson on Sat Jun 22, 2013 at 08:23:27 PM EST
Parent


And let's also note that Woods fails to link back to Frank's piece at Daily Kos, which appeared first here at Talk to Action.  This suggests to me that Woods lacks confidence in his work -- and from what I have seen, he has good reason to be concerned.  

by Frederick Clarkson on Sat Jun 22, 2013 at 08:28:49 PM EST
Parent


Well, that was actually an eye-opener to me. There were so many matters which I had misconceptions about before and these articles actually made me rethink about these and made it clear that how mislead was the previous perspectives.
nursing homes in wichita ks

by Mason863 on Tue May 26, 2015 at 12:07:28 AM EST


WWW Talk To Action


The Cardinal's Gasbag: Catholic League Leader Rushes To Defend Dolan From AU Criticism
There is a thing called Godwin's Law on the internet. It holds that if an online argument goes on long enough, someone will drag......
By Rob Boston (1 comment)
The Theocratic Politics of Raphael Cruz
"There's a relationship there that's unlike any in American history to my knowledge. We've just never seen anything remotely like this...   I believe......
By Frederick Clarkson (0 comments)
An Assassin's Motivation?
On June 17, 2015, Dylann Roof quietly sat in the prayer meeting at African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina before he shot......
By wilkyjr (2 comments)
Christian Right Turns to Nullification to Counter Marriage Equality
Last year in The Public Eye magazine, Rachel Tabachnick and Frank L. Cocozzelli warned of the trend on the religious and political Right toward......
By Frederick Clarkson (2 comments)
Historian Gerald Horne on Charleston, Church, & Slave Resistance
Professor Gerald Horne of the University of Houston notes the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church was at the center of Black resistance to slavery......
By Chip Berlet (2 comments)
The Zealots Strike Back: Latest Religious Right Sputtering Over Marriage Equality Is More Weak Tea
I've been monitoring the Religious Right's response to the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling on marriage equality, and I'm not impressed.So far, the reaction of......
By Rob Boston (0 comments)
Is Koch Brothers Money Fueling Criticism of Pope Francis on Climate Change?
In my last post I examined conservative criticism of Laudato Sii, ("Praised Be"), Pope Francis's encyclical on the environment and poverty. Indeed, some of......
By Frank Cocozzelli (3 comments)
Politics in Theocratic Times
The matter of religious exemptions from civil rights and labor laws is at the cutting edge of the contemporary political strategy of the Christian......
By Frederick Clarkson (1 comment)
Why Is the Christian Right Remaining Silent About the Dennis Hastert Affair?
In early June, the Associated Press' Mary Clare Jalonick reported that a Montana woman interviewed by the FBI claimed that "her brother was sexually......
By Bill Berkowitz (1 comment)
Remembering James Dunn: Baptist Champion Of Religious Freedom
When I began working for Americans United in 1987, one thing confused me: Why were there so many Southern Baptists hanging around?Southern Baptists were......
By Rob Boston (0 comments)
Resistance Is Futile: Some County Clerks Say `I Won't' To Marriage Equality
One week ago, the U.S. Supreme Court extended marriage equality nationwide. So where are we now?To no one's surprise, leaders of the Religious Right......
By Rob Boston (2 comments)
Celebrating July 4th
A decade or so ago I was vacationing in Hot Springs,  Arkansas.  It was July 4th and I attended the First Baptist Church in......
By wilkyjr (1 comment)
Nine Mainline Protestant Christian Martyrs
This is a tricky time for the Christian Right. Immediately following the mass murder at the historic Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal (AME) Church in......
By Frederick Clarkson (4 comments)
Terms, Definitions & Glossaries for Writing about the Religious Right
One of the challenges in writing about the Religious Right and what to do about it is the matter of terms and definitions. That's......
By Frederick Clarkson (2 comments)
Top Southern Baptist Official Admits Churches Won't Be Forced To Marry Same-Sex Couples
For years now, Religious Right leaders have been whipping up hysteria by claiming that, should marriage equality become the law of the land, conservative......
By Rob Boston (3 comments)

Evidence violence is more common than believed
Think I've been making things up about experiencing Christian Terrorism or exaggerating, or that it was an isolated incident?  I suggest you read this article (linked below in body), which is about our great......
ArchaeoBob (2 comments)
Central Florida Sheriff Preached Sermon in Uniform
If anyone has been following the craziness in Polk County Florida, they know that some really strange and troubling things have happened here.  We've had multiple separation of church and state lawsuits going at......
ArchaeoBob (2 comments)
Demon Mammon?
An anthropologist from outer space might be forgiven for concluding that the god of this world is Mammon. (Or, rather, The Market, as depicted by John McMurtry in his book The Cancer Stage of......
daerie (0 comments)
Anti-Sharia Fever in Texas: This is How It Starts
The mayor of a mid-size Texan city has emerged in recent months as the newest face of Islamophobia. Aligning herself with extremists hostile to Islam, Mayor Beth Van Duyne of Irving, Texas has helped......
JSanford (0 comments)
Evangelicals Seduced By Ayn Rand Worship Crypto-Satanism, Suggest Scholars
[update: also see my closely related stories, "Crypto-Cultists" and "Cranks": The Video Paul Ryan Hoped Would Go Away, and The Paul Ryan/Ayn Rand/Satanism Connection Made Simple] "I give people Ayn Rand with trappings" -......
Bruce Wilson (11 comments)
Ted Cruz Anointed By Pastor Who Says Jesus Opposed Minimum Wage, and Constitution Based on the Bible
In the video below, from a July 19-20th, 2013 pastor's rally at a Marriott Hotel in Des Moines, Iowa, Tea Party potentate Ted Cruz is blessed by religious right leader David Barton, who claims......
Bruce Wilson (1 comment)
Galt and God: Ayn Randians and Christian Rightists Expand Ties
Ayn Rand's followers find themselves sharing a lot of common ground with the Christian Right these days. The Tea Party, with its stress on righteous liberty and a robust form of capitalism, has been......
JSanford (4 comments)
Witchhunts in Africa and the U.S.A.
Nigerian human rights activist Leo Igwe has recently written at least two blog posts about how some African Pentecostal churches are sending missionaries to Europe and the U.S.A. in an attempt to "re-evangelize the......
Diane Vera (2 comments)
Charles Taze Russell and John Hagee
No doubt exists that Texas mega-church Pastor John Hagee would be loathe to be associated with the theology of Pastor C.T. Russell (wrongly credited with founding the Jehovah's Witnesses) but their theological orbits, while......
COinMS (0 comments)
A death among the common people ... imagination.
Or maybe my title would better fit as “Laws, Books, where to find, and the people who trust them.”What a society we've become!The wise ones tell us over and over how the more things......
Arthur Ruger (1 comment)
Deconstructing the Dominionists, Part VI
This is part 6 of a series by guest front pager Mahanoy, originally dated November 15, 2007 which I had to delete and repost for technical reasons. It is referred to in this post,......
Frederick Clarkson (1 comment)
Republican infighting in Mississippi
After a bruising GOP runoff election for U.S. Senator, current MS Senator Thad Cochran has retained his position and will face Travis Childers (Democrat) in the next senate election. The MS GOP is fractured......
COinMS (5 comments)
America's Most Convenient Bank® refuses to serve Christians
Representatives of a well known faith-based charitable organization were refused a New Jersey bank’s notarization service by an atheist employee. After inquiring about the nature of the non-profit organization and the documents requiring......
Jody Lane (6 comments)
John Benefiel takes credit for GOP takeover of Oklahoma
Many of you know that Oklahoma has turned an unrecognizable shade of red in recent years.  Yesterday, one of the leading members of the New Apostolic Reformation all but declared that he was responsible......
Christian Dem in NC (4 comments)
John Benefiel thinks America is under curse because Egyptians dedicated North America to Baal
You may remember that Rick Perry put together his "Response" prayer rallies with the help of a slew of NAR figures.  One of them was John Benefiel, an Oklahoma City-based "apostle."  He heads up......
Christian Dem in NC (5 comments)

More Diaries...




All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments, posts, stories, and all other content are owned by the authors. Everything else 2005 Talk to Action, LLC.