Gruner, Kramer, Zola, From 1990 Fatima Center Broadcast, On The "Judeo-Masonic" Conspiracy
Bruce Wilson printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 11:31:25 AM EST
In a segment of the radio show "Heaven's Peace Plan" which aired in 1990, following the first Gulf War with Iraq, Fatima Center head Father Nicholas Gruner and his colleague Father Paul Kramer joined Tom Zola, then-head of for the following discussion - in which the three describe a Jewish-Masonic plot to instigate world wars and, ultimately, launch a New World Order led by the anti-Christ. I have transcribed this segment to demonstrate the remarkably continuity of the anti-Jewish conspiracy narrative told by leaders associated with the Fatima Center, a narrative which over the course of more than two decades, from 1990 to 2013, remained essentially unchanged. For comparison, see my story "Judeo-Freemasonry" Aims To Exterminate Humanity, Claims Father Paul Kramer, from a talk Kramer gave in England on June 2, 2013.
In a segment of the radio show "Heaven's Peace Plan" which aired in 1990, following the first Gulf War with Iraq, Fatima Center head Father Nicholas Gruner and his colleague Father Paul Kramer joined Tom Zola, head of for the following discussion - in which the three describe a Jewish-Masonic plot to instigate world wars and, ultimately, launch a New World Order led by the anti-Christ.

["Heaven's Peace Plan, program #515}

At roughly 1:00, Father Nicholas Gruner begins,

Gruner: "Before we start, we'd like to let our listeners know that there are many questions people are asking about the New World Order. People are asking about, "what has the New World Order got to do with world peace, and what has this got to do with Christianity, and with our Lady of Fatima's peace plan - and I think we're going to try and answer these questions, and they're questions that go back into antiquity we could say.

But before we talk about this, let us pray to our Lady, asking to help us understand the times that we're in, the crisis that we're in, and that her plan, her Fatima plan, is the only one that will really work. And she foresaw this great conspiracy and this New World Order, and she has given us the solution to it.

Let us pray together, the Hail Mary. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

[Father Kramer also gives a brief prayer]

Gruner: Perhaps, Tom [Zola], you would like to give us a little bit of background about the New World Order. You've been listening to President Bush and others talk about this recently - perhaps you have something you'd like to add.

Zola: We certainly have been, and we've been quite alarmed by this new development. The president, it seems that every time he speaks he has to include his statement on the New World Order. Now, of course, this has never originated with the President - it's been on our dollar for, since the Federal Reserve Act at the beginning of the century.

And the understanding of the New World Order really has been a goal of the Masonic orders for almost three centuries. It really dates back to the time of the redemption in which the Messiah was rejected by his own people and instead of accepting Christ, the Jewish nation as a whole decided to work and plan for their new messiah - which would be, on a natural level - as opposed to the messiah-ship that our Lord presented on a supernatural level.

And the working of the Jews that rejected out Lord through the centuries has been summed up in their attempt to create a one-world government under their leadership - instead of the supernatural unity that out Lord had proposed to the world for the sake of reuniting all of mankind again with God.

Gruner: Thus, we're covering wide...

Zola: It covers the wide spectrum of the story of the human race.

Gruner: Well, I think the first thing you pointed out is that the New World Order doesn't date or start with George Bush - it goes back, at least in United States history, to the dollar bill, which has on the back of it "Novus Ordo Seclorum", which means "New World Order" - if I can translate that the same way. And that goes back, at least, to 1917 - or 1913 - but what you're telling us [is that] it goes back even further than that.

[note: Father Gruner's understanding of Latin here is faulty. "Novus Ordo Seclorum" does not translate into English as "New World Order". It means, literally, "New Order of the Ages"]

Masonry started in, at least it became above-ground, in 1717 and it was condemned by the Popes since 1738 and is still condemned by the church to this day - though some people are confused on that point - and this idea of a New World Order dates back to at least 1717 - it's also came out in the Illuminati in around 1776 or thereabouts - I'm talking about when it became public - I'm not saying - now, but what you're saying, in fact, this idea of a New World Order is basically to set up a world government under the direction of the anti-Christ, the one who would claim to be the Messiah and he would try to supplant, as it says in sacred scripture, he would hold himself up as if he were God, when we know he would not [be], he would be someone who is against God. And thus, Father Paul, you would like to comment on this and maybe we could get down to what it means to us today at this time.

Father Paul Kramer: The New World Order, as I've explained in my recent article in the Fatima Crusader, is a preparation for a one-world government. This has been constantly the plan of Freemasonry. Already in the 1730s there was a book published, I believe in Brussels, called "The Secret of Masonry" and it is already revealed in this book [that] the plan of Masonry is to establish a one-world government.

Down throughout the centuries, the great heresies - such as Albigensianism - there were Talmudists who were directing the heresy of the Albigensians, and it's very interesting -- when you look at their social doctrine, they wanted to get rid of private property, they wanted to get rid of national frontiers. Again, you were heading towards the establishment of a world government.

Heinrich Graetz, the great Jewish historian, pointed out in his voluminous work that, with the establishment of a Christian empire, the Jews had lost their civil rights. They had undermined Christianity - as the fathers of the church explain, as has been historically recorded, and in order to defend itself Christian civilization justly deprived them of certain rights, they couldn't hold public office and such. And so they dreamed of the past when they had the greater liberties under the Roman Republic.

And so, therefore, they intended to overthrow Christian civilization and replace it with with a republic which would be under their own leadership. And this, in fact, is what they began to do during the days of St. Bernard, back during the 1100s with the overthrow of the Papal government of the Papal states - that was one of the most unusual times in history when the Pope actually had to declare a crusade against Rome because there was an imposter pope, in fact a Jewish anti-Pope who was reigning from Rome.

And Pope Innocent the 2nd, I believe, had to declare a crusade against Rome. The popes at that time were, of course, I believe, were Eugene the 3rd and the English Pope [?]. At first, the anti-Pope had been elected, his name was, he was Cardinal Pierlioni, the grandson of a Jewish Consul [note: the anti-Pope to whom Kramer refers to is Anacletus II, son of the Roman Consul Pier Leoni. Anacletus II was the great-great grandson of a Jewish convert to Christianity.] After he was overthrown and the Pope's authority was reestablished in Rome [note: Anacletus II was never 'ovethrown'. He died a natural death, while still in office.] Then, the government of Rome was overthrown and a secular Republic was set up in Rome. And it took a number of years before, finally, the Pope's monarchy was reestablished over the Papal States.

[commercial break - "For your free copy of the Fatima Crusader, call toll free - 1-800-263-8160"]

Gruner: Perhaps to bring this down to, we have to try to confine this a little bit to get to the common - first of all, what we're both all seem to be trying to say here is that the New World Order is actually an old - it's not something new - it's something that's been planned a long time ago, it's mentioned in the sacred scripture even with the coming of the anti-Christ, and so forth, and right now what is new is that a President of the United States has been saying this word "New World Order", time and time again - and especially in the context of this war with Iraq, and he says that - one of the first times it was mentioned by any president in the public, that I know of, was by President [George H.W.] Bush, in September [1990] in his talk to the nation - he mentions it seven times, which is apparently a significant number for Masonry.

And he mentioned, at that time, that there was - that for a hundred generations which, to make that very plain, makes it 2,500 years - in other words, he dates this question for the New World Order, the only way we're going to find peace in this world is by going back beyond Christ, to a time before Christ - that we can bypass Christ, in other words - and seeking the New World Order, which ties in, again, with the whole idea that's trying to bypass Christ, this whole thing of New World Order.

And we see these soldiers, we see that these soldiers are not allowed to wear these religious symbols on them, like a Scapular or a Rosary, the priests or the ministers are not allowed to wear a cross or a crucifix on their, on the uniform, because this is part of the soldiering for the New World Order. It all ties in that the New World Order is also against Christ and now, maybe you'd like to say something on that, Tom.

Zola: Well I think, for the sake of the listeners, that the, what's important is to have a perspective, is really all that is being dealt with here in this subject matter - the Freemasonry is, in essence, a tool of the Jewish nation to implement the one-world government, which the Jews have attempted to establish ever since the rejection of the Messiah.

It's interesting to note that the Chief Rabbi of Palestine, upon the inauguration of the new state of Israel, stated that eventually it would lead to the inauguration of the true union of the nations which would fulfill the eternal message to mankind, of our immortal prophet. It is in the perspective of this Rabbi that the establishment of Israel, as the new home of the Jews, is the beginning of this unity, which has always been aimed at by the New World Order.

In other words, the rejection of Christ, as the Messiah, will be completed by the acceptance of the Jews of what they believe is the true Messiah under, and that all the nations of the world will be under that, under that leadership. The war, at the moment, is really involving all the elements that are of concern in this subject matter. We're dealing with the state of Israel, we're dealing with the, with the area of the Middle East, we're dealing with the non-Jewish nations of the world, in an attempt to unify, in order to solve this problem of the Iraqi war and that, for some reason, all of it is continually being placed under the goal of a New World Order.

The listener really, if he's not familiar with any of this subject matter, has a tremendous amount of studying to do. We at Catholic Treasures have attempted to make available various books on the subject matter in which the understanding of it could be made a lot simpler.

Gruner: Well, maybe you have some books in mind that you - you would like to just name some titles.

Zola: One that we're excited about at the moment that's just been reprinted is "The Grand Orient Freemasonry Unmasked" - or the real source for the power behind communism, which is kind of its subtitle. Now, this is a series of lectures by Monsignor [George E.] Dillon which was given at the end of the last century and has been out of print for, for almost a hundred years.

Gruner: Why do you recommend that particular book ?

Zola: Well, it seems to sum up the entire story of, of the New World Order that we're hearing so much about today. The preface is by a very famous researcher of the Masonic question, and the Jewish involvement in it.

Gruner: What's his name ?

Zola: Father Dennis Fahey.

Gruner: Oh, yes.

Zola: It is a very powerful introduction to the book, and in the book itself he carries the reader all the way through the history of Freemasonry and their hatred for Christ and the Catholic Church and the attempt to establish, in essence, the New World Order. There are many other titles in which this subject is treated in more detail but we're very excited about this particular title because it is a, an excellent summary.

[commercial break: "Friends of Our Lady, please help Sister Lucy now. Join our crusade to free Sister Lucy from her 30-year ordeal of silence. Call us now for your free postcards to send to the Vatican, asking Sister Lucy to be freed. You will receive our free brochure, "The Plot to Silence our Lady- the Chronology of a Coverup". Please help by distributing these postcards and this free brochure to your friends, family, fellow workers, and all you neighbors, at our 1-800-263-8160 or write us a P.O. Box 422, Buffalo, NY, 14205. Our Lady is depending on you to do your part. Please call now at 1-800-263-8160"]

Gruner: What is the name of the book, again ?

Zola: It's called "Grand Orient Freemasonry Unmasked"

Kramer: There are a number of titled I could add to that. The first one that comes to my mind is "The Anti-Christian Revolution of Freemasonry". Unfortunately, the book has not yet been translated into English from the German. I have it in the German and it is very revealing about the plans for the New World Order, for the one-world government instigated by Freemasonry.

And, I might add, you hit the nail on the head - I'm very familiar with the quotation of the Chief Rabbi, that was, I believe, in 1948 - about the time of the establishment of the State of Israel [Zola: "that's correct"] that they came out and said that Israel was going to be the center and hub of the world government, is what they were saying.

You find already, back in the Freemasonic Almanac, with the German paper [sp.?] where back in 1867 a Jewish Masonic author by the name of Levy Bing [sp?], if I remember his name correctly, stated that there would be one day established a supreme court, as it were, for the entire world, a one-world court which would have jurisdiction over the entire world. In his own words, he says that "The sons of Abraham will pronounce justice over the nations".

There are organizations, of course, which are still promoting this - even Cardinal Casaroli, a few years ago, as this, quoted in the L'Osservatore Romano, the text is reproduced in a book of Father Adler [sp?]; in this book we find the text of Cardinal Casaroli's speech where he's promoting the same idea, of a supreme court of the world that would have a jurisdiction, a gov - a power, a jurisdictional power over the nations - this leads back to the idea of Israel being the center of the world government, and that ties in precisely to what is happening now in the Persian Gulf.

Israel has been the behind-the-scenes instigator of the hostilities, of the U.S. and allied forces.

Gruner: It seems to be there's been some long-term planning here. I don't know if you have any comments on that.

Zola: I think I have something that may be quite alarming to most people. In studying the works of, the history of the Masonic Order we come across the world of someone called Albert Pike. General Albert Pike was an American Mason who was hired by the family in Italy called the Mazzini family.

[note: the writing attributed to Albert Pike that Zola refers to here does not seem to exist. Conspiracy theories referencing the alleged document claim it resides "on display in the British Museum Library in London". But according to that museum, it has never possessed such a document.]

The attempt of the Masons to create a one-world government inaugurated this hiring of Albert Pike to plan what turns out to be the three world wars - with the intent that after each war there would be a struggle to create a one-world government. There was no timetable to these wars. If the first one did not succeed then there would be a needed, a second one, if the second one didn't succeed, then the third.

Now, the plan for this, three world wars, were all laid out at one time. This, as I understand, is in the museum in London and that it possibly can still be seen by anybody interested in researching it.

[commercial break: "For your prayer requests, call toll free, 1-800-262-8160. That number, again, is 1-800-262-8160"]

Zola: It's also of note to mention that the third world war as laid out by Albert Pike was to be fought in the Middle East and was to be fought between what is called "the world of Islam" and "political Zionism". Now after the first world war, the attempt to have an international governing body, what would have been the first of one, or the first New World Order, was called a League of Nations. League of Nations was on this road to success except that it was discovered that some of the things they were going to develop, and this was torpedoed by some of the members of President Wilson's cabinet.

After the Second World War, the attempted international governing body is now called United Nations - it is under this title that President [George H.W.] Bush is attempting to unify all the nations in opposition to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. Yet we know that on the book is still the third world war. Now, if the sovereignty of the nations of the world are not sufficiently surrendered to the governing of the United Nations, it's going to necessitate a third world war.

Whether or not the struggle we're involved in at the moment is the beginning of that war is really a guess at this point. It may just be a dry run. But it is interesting to note that the President of the United States is responsible for lining up the unification of nations for the purpose of acting together as a, as a force for what would be called the "New World Police Force". And so I leave you with that information. It's, from the standpoint of Catholic Treasures - we're fascinated with everyday developments, and our knowledge and the background we have, of involvement of the Jews working with the Masonic lodges to establish the New World Order, and also the use of Communism as another weapon in the arsenal of the Masons.

Which of course brings us down to the Fatima question, and the revelation from Our Lady, as to the cause of world wars. As She stated in the Fatima messages, "war is a punishment for sin". It might be asked, by every individual, "what's sin, or is Heaven really concerned about our sins?" And we at Catholic Treasures suspect that this sin being referred to is rejection of our Lord's plan for reuniting mankind, which is membership in his mystical body.

If we - interesting that if the Third Secret is ever revealed that we suspect that it may include this particular piece of information - that the sin that our Lady is referring to in the Fatima statements about the cause of wars really is the denial of this basic, fundamental dogma of the Church, of the necessity of belonging to the Church in order to reunite mankind with God.

Gruner: I think the important thing to remember is certainly that our Lady of Fatima tells us, told us that, at Fatima, that "Only I can help you", that is, you know, people talk about establishing a New World Order to bring peace. What we know is that we can't have peace without the Prince of Peace - that is, Jesus Christ - being in charge of peace, not only in name but also following his teaching, his doctrine. And any other attempt to bring world peace which is opposed to Christ will end in failure and disaster - as it says in sacred scripture, "Unless the Lord build a house, they labor in vain who build it. Unless the Lord guard the city, in vain does the guard keep vigil." And without God's blessing on mankind's searching for peace there will be no peace.

If we do not do things God's way, if we do them in opposition to god, not only will we not have peace, we will have war and destruction, and our Lady tells us if her requests are granted, Russia will be converted and we will have peace. And if my requests are not granted, various nations will be annihilated and the whole world will be enslaved."

The event isn't even in the U.S.A. Poor pickings for a politician. Is Ron Paul Catholic?

by NancyP on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 04:58:08 PM EST

Paul must be insane to sit with these folks; nevermind actually agreeing with them on anything. I cannot fathom those voters who see Ron Paul ( RON PAUL!!) as an anti-drug war pol, and not see how he kowtows to extremist in more than one camp, and pals around with white nationalists on his free time.

by trog69 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 11:34:11 PM EST

I'm embarrassed as a Catholic that these people call themselves Catholic, even though they belong to a splinter breakaway group that hates Vatican II.

by khughes1963 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 07:56:21 AM EST
I'm doing a transcript, now, of a recent panel discussion with Gruner, Kramer, and Robert Sungenis, which includes, among other things, the claim that John Paul II was part of the (ongoing) Masonic infiltration of the Vatican.  

by Bruce Wilson on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 11:37:18 AM EST

From painful personal experience, I have to say that I regard the Masons with deep dislike and distrust. My uncle ~ my mother's only sibling ~ has been heavily involved in the Masons for decades. After my father declined his invitation to join, he essentially wrote off our part of the family. After his wife died (they had no children), he informed my mother that he was leaving his entire estate to the Masonic Home and had advised them that he had no living family. Now, as far as I'm concerned, he has every right to make his will however he wants. But to lie about our existence, and then throw that in my mother's face, is just inexcusably cruel. As far as I am concerned, the Masons are little better than a cult.

My point in saying that is that I can understand how people who have been hurt by the Masons can find what Kramer and Zola are saying to be quite believable. I don't. I understand that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is a simplistic generalization, often not true. And linking antisemitism with anti-Masonic sentiment is vicious conspiracy-mongering. But I do think that some suspicion of Masonic practices and motives is justified, and that's the opening that Kramer and Zola are more than willing to exploit for their own hateful agenda.

by MLouise on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 05:19:23 PM EST
...plays out across the board - with estranged, sometimes socially isolated relatives (often isolated from their relatives by choice) leaving their estates to religious organizations of every stripe, as well as to recently-met non-relatives or even random strangers. Just an observation.

by Bruce Wilson on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 05:59:29 PM EST
but this was simply one example in a long history of his choosing the Masons over all our attempts to reach out and include him (them, while my aunt was alive). To make a point of telling his sister to her face that he had no living relatives was, as far as I am concerned, beyond the pale. Isn't one of the traits of a cult the deliberate isolation of members from their families? As I said, the bequest isn't the issue; the cruelty in the way he announced it is what I object to. And I blame that on the Masons' demanding his total allegiance.

This is my personal experience. Over the years I've talked with a number of women who have their own horror stories. I don't think that the Masons are guilty of the wild-eyed charges that these right-wingers are making, but neither am I convinced that they are simply the benign charitable men's club that they would like everyone to believe. I think it is unfortunate that they are victims of these insane conspiracy theories, because it generates sympathy on the left for an organization that probably deserves far more serious scrutiny than they receive.

by MLouise on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 10:24:36 PM EST
The Shriners are an independent offshoot of Masonry, I understand, and they do support three world-class pediatric burn units and a number of pediatric orthopedic hospitals. All patients are treated for free. The Shriners' Circus is a fundraiser for that. So far as social events, all I can say is that they drink beer - a LOT of beer. When I worked for a summer at their burn unit (research technician), the annual picnic for the burn unit was held at some Shriner's farm. The feature of the picnic was a brick and concrete open picnic pavilion with a permanent central 3 keg tap.

I have no idea what Masons do.

by NancyP on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 03:27:06 PM EST

It's my understanding that a Shriner Hospital will take in any child regardless of faith, color, etc if funds aren't available for their care.  A friend of mine took advantage of that for his daughter, born with lifelong problems- in spite of his belief that the Masons are a secretive, anti-christian group.  Maybe if Masons had a bar at their meeting house as other private clubs do they wouldn't be so feared.  I don't see these other clubs running free hospitals for children.

by ancient1 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 09:59:02 PM EST

To make a point of telling his sister to her face that he had no living relatives was, as far as I am concerned, beyond the pale FirstBankCard

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Here they have shared about religious right-related things.  family protection dogs I felt that this is one of the best sites from where you can discuss or know about Gruner, Kramer, and Zola, From the 1990 Fatima Center Broadcast, On The "Judeo-Masonic" Conspiracy.

by isabelladom on Mon Aug 29, 2022 at 03:05:33 AM EST

The evidence they gave in the news didn't really convince me. They give opinions about the Jews based on their personal street fighter duel views

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