Learning to be Patient Revolutionaries
Mainstream Baptist printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Thu Nov 24, 2005 at 07:11:27 AM EST
My introduction to Christian Reconstructionism came in 1986, when Reconstructionist leader Gary North interviewed Paul Pressler for one of his "Fireside Chats."  At the time, North's name was foreign to me, but Pressler's was familiar.  Paul Pressler was the architect of the fundamentalist takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention.

[To hear a 3.45 minute podcast (mp3 file) of North and Pressler discussing Pressler's background and experience , click here and give it time to download]

Before North interviewed Pressler, SBC fundamentalists had long denied that their movement was an organized political effort to take over the Convention.  Such denials were no longer possible once Pressler had spoken publicly about the success of their strategy.

As I listened to North's interview of Pressler, I began to worry about the goals and intentions of the person who suggested that Pressler's strategy to takeover the SBC could be a model for how "conservatives" could take over other organizations.  

Here's some of what North said during his introduction to Pressler's interview:

It's my opinion that, while the focus of the fight was theological, that the techniques that Pressler and his associates adopted can be used to capture other kinds of organizations.  I don't think that this approach that they used, that he will describe, is limited strictly to churches.  I think similar tactics can be used in other kinds of organizations.   But, the key is --  the laity or your average supporter of the organization has got to share your viewpoints.  Conservatives are very inefficient at being able to capture any kind of organization.  I can see no way, or almost no way, that the conservatives could expect to go out and capture an institution where the support -- the financial support would be coming from people who don't like conservative ideas.   But, if we can find those institutions that are financially supported by people who are in essential agreement with us about the way the world works, . . . that it is still possible to go in and take the institutional power away from our opponents who have very quietly and very successfully gained the seats of power in those organizations -- despite the fact that the money and the support is coming from people who share our views.

[To hear a 2.17 minute podcast (mp3 file) of North's introduction to his interview with Pressler, click here and give it time to download]

Throughout the interview, North drew parallels between the actions of SBC takeover leaders and the actions of the political "New Right" and he commented on relationships between the leaders of the two movements.  Pressler was clearly uncomfortable about his highlighting the connections between SBC denominational politics and secular politics.  Here's an excerpt from their discussion:

Pressler:  We did not enter this in a vacuum.  It was something that tried to paper over the problems in the past.  And there was rumbling tide of discontent, but a frustration on the part of the majority element in the Convention because they had no direction for rectifying the problems towards which their frustrations was developed.

North:  Now in that respect, you see, this is really, when you think about it, a microcosm of the whole country.

Pressler:  Oh, agreed. Entirely.

North:  Only it's not a theological issue, at least not visibly so.  Generally, people in the hinterlands don't like what's going on in Washington and haven't for years, but there is . . . the discontent has not yet been able to be translated into policy changes and institutional alterations to make that discontent flower.

Pressler:  Exactly.

North:  So, you're coming into this fight . . . again, almost exactly at the time that the . . .  the so-called "New Right" . . . the technicians of Paul Weyrich and other men who are masters of mobilization and getting ideas translated into policy and policy into votes on the floor of the Senate or the House -- these men at the very same time were mobilizing for the Ronald Reagan candidacy.

Pressler:  Yes, and, you see, that they were completely unrelated.  And we . . .

North:  Institutionally unrelated.  (Interrupted by phone ringing.)

North again:  I understand, of course, that . . . yes, it's two different institutional fights, but . . . people . . . there is a . . . there are periods in history when across the board people's minds change.

Pressler:  That's right, but the thing that I want to be very careful to point out is we have been accused of being an agency of the "New Right" political movement.  

North:  Yes, I understand that.

Pressler:  We have no connection with it whatsoever, but there are similarities.  What we did was spiritually motivated, theologically motivated and a concern for the theological well-being of not only our denomination but those to whom we should be witnessing.  The parallels are there, but the accusation that all we are is part of the political "New Right" is not a valid observation.

North:  No, and in fact, in my estimation, in fact, it's almost the other way, because the new right as such was virtually derailed by the election of Reagan.

Pressler:  Yes.

North:  The money fell off.  The institutions began going in the red.  The success of Reagan politically was probably premature with respect to the goals of the "New Right."

Pressler:  Yes.

North:  Whereas, on the other hand, in direct contrast to this, your organization and your fight seems to have escalated at precisely the point that the "New Right" got what it wanted and began to decline, in terms, at least, of the money raised and the number of people who were turned out to vote.

[To hear a 4.12 minute podcast (mp3 file) of the dialogue between North and Pressler about the "New Right," click here and give it time to download]

When the interview began to get bogged down by the details of  how the fundamentalists were able to put their own men in control of all the institutions of the SBC, North identified the key ingredient of their successful strategy - leadership with the patience and persistence to pursue a long term project.  Here's another excerpt:

North:  Now, Adrian Rogers comes in in general sympathy with your efforts.

Pressler:  Complete sympathy.

North:  OK . . . now . . . let's get on to the real nitty-gritty.  What did Adrian Rogers do to tell you that the beginning of the war was now coming in your direction. . . at least a major shift . . . what did he do?

Pressler:   Adrian appointed a absolutely superb Committee on Committees and a absolutely superb Resolutions Committee and the other appointments he made were very good, but those were the two crucial committees.

North:  Where did he know . . . did . . . he had to have known who to appoint.  He's no idiot.  Obviously he has some idea . . .  somebody's done his homework in the thing.  Now let's . . . people aren't naïve who are listening to tapes, besides its semi-ancient history.  I mean the thing is going . . . the revolution was.

Pressler:  Well, Adrian had a reservoir of friends from which to draw recommendations.

North:  How did he have that?  I mean, I know he's a popular preacher, but all the guys who had been elected for years had had that?  Is he really the first solid, consistent, "I understand the fight" type of guy who had gone in?

Pressler:  He's the first one that probably made his appointment from a viewpoint of, "How can I effectuate change by these appointments?"

North:  All right.  That to me is the key!  It's not that he was conservative.  It's not that he was a Bible believer.  But he saw the nature of a struggle.

Pressler:  Yes.

North:  . . . of an institutional struggle.   And he said, "I'm going to be the first guy to start out in a long term project."

Pressler:  Exactly.

North:  Now that's what's different!

Pressler:  That's what's different.  And for the first time we had a direction of the conservative movement that would accomplish things working within the system without tearing the system up.

North:  All right, and that's also significant, because you didn't want a split at that point.

[To hear a 1.49 minute podcast (mp3 file) of North talking to Pressler about having a long term perspective, click here and wait for it to download]

Significantly, when Pressler describes the effects that the new fundamentalist appointees had on the SBC Resolutions Committee, they were all about the secular politics that he was so uncomfortable talking about just minutes before.  Here's how he put it:

And then we had a Resolutions Committee that was conservative for the first time.  And we passed the first pro-life resolution -- strongly pro-life resolution -- ever passed by the Southern Baptist Convention.  And we passed an anti-ERA resolution which just infuriated the liberals because they had been utilizing the powers of the Southern Baptist Convention both for the abortion movement and for ERA.  And so here we clipped their wings by opposing both at the National Convention.

[To hear a 3.44 minute podcast (mp3 file) in which Pressler makes the above quote, click here and give it time to download.  Note this file also contains the next quote]

North follows up with an observation about his sitting on the platform next to Adrian Rogers at the National Briefing Conference in Dallas in 1980 when Bailey Smith made his infamous "God does not hear the prayer of a Jew" statement.  He said,

To reinforce your point on the politics issue, that was a "New Right" . . . "New Christian Right" operation . . . there is just no question about that meeting.  But, Bailey said afterwards to the press, he said, "I'm here because Adrian Rogers invited me here and I am really not interested in the political-ideological fight that's going on."  And so again, he was there, but his point was not to be in politics.

[To hear a 3.44 minute podcast (mp3 file) in which North describes the 1980 National Briefing Conference, click here and give it time to download.  Note this file is identical to the one under the previous quote by Paul Pressler.]

Despite the denials, listening to that interview confirmed my suspicion that the goal of influencing secular politics was one of the primary motives for the fundamentalist takeover of the SBC.  I decided that I needed to learn more about Gary North, the principles that he stood for, and the kind of changes he was interested in seeing effected.  Particularly since Pressler's last words in North's interview were, "I appreciate all that you are doing and the privilege to stand for the same basic principles."

[To hear a 1.44 minute podcast (mp3 file) of the conclusion of North's interview with Pressler, click here and give it time to download.]

Tomorrow I'll discuss what I learned about Gary North's theology and politics.

This is the second of six essays. Here are the links to the other essays in the series:

On Restoring America
Learning to be Patient Revolutionaries
From Reconstructionism to Dominonism, Part 1
From Reconstructionism to Dominionism, Part 2
SBC Takeover Leaders and the CNP
Reconstructionism, Southern Baptists & Education

I'm sorry to admit I'm just discovering you. You are a treasure! You've been living with this vital information for more than two decades. I want to the whole country to hear you.

Joan Bokaer

by Joan Bokaer on Thu Nov 24, 2005 at 10:57:47 AM EST

Dr. Prescott's strong inference that Judge Paul Pressler holds or is swayed by Christian Reconstructionism is simply wrong and misleading. He has made this very clear in print on numerous occasions - which I am sure Bruce is aware of.
Pastor Scott Lamb

by Scott Lamb on Fri Nov 25, 2005 at 12:02:54 AM EST
The chief difference between North's theology and Pressler's seems to be that North's eschatology is post-millennial while Pressler's is pre-millennial.

That's a difference entirely within the Dominionist movement -- which is broad enough to include both forms of eschatology.

by Mainstream Baptist on Fri Nov 25, 2005 at 12:39:27 AM EST

In the course of registering as a user, you had to check off a box indicating that you agree with the purposes of this site.

So let me ask you publicly. Do you agree with the purpose of this site?

by Frederick Clarkson on Fri Nov 25, 2005 at 01:18:20 AM EST

You mean to tell me that the only permissable comments are from people who fully agree with everything you say and how you say it?

I did indeed quickly read through the check-off box and saw what I thought was a basic agreement to civility in conversation. I have not broken that, nor do I intend on doing so.

Again, are you actually forbidding anyone to post anything that goes against any statement made, or even the way it is stated? Where is the communicative value in that?

If that is indeed what you intend, then I would have to "uncheck" my name, for who knows what you might decide to write about tomorrow or next week.

by Scott Lamb on Fri Nov 25, 2005 at 01:57:38 AM EST

Do you always "quickly read through" -- meaning "I did not read and did not understand" documents and then check off the box that says that you did?

Try reading the site purpose and guidelies. If you find them agreeable, then you are welcome to participate. If not, then we will be glad to remove your name from the list of registered users.

by Frederick Clarkson on Fri Nov 25, 2005 at 01:53:11 PM EST

You can de-register me. I am certainly not part of the already-committed choir to whom you are preaching.

If I read your statement too fast, it was b/c I assumed this was a blog in the normal sense of the word (i.e. civil dialogue back and forth from various opinions). However, your blog=your rules.

Scott Lamb

by Scott Lamb on Fri Nov 25, 2005 at 04:11:59 PM EST

Just to clarify: we are not preaching to a choir. Those who can agree with our site guidelines represent a range of views but are interested in taking the conversation forward in how best to understand, cope with, and confront the anti-democratic and theocratic elements in our society.

We know that this site is not going to be everyone's cup of tea, and we are fine with that.

Speaking for myself, and I think for all of the featured writers on this site, we are indeed interested in civil discourse in society and on this site. That we wish to limit the purposes of this particular site to move certain kinds of conversations forward, in no way means that we do not wish other kinds of civil and robust discussion to continue all across our society.  Indeed, that is the very definition of a democratic society.

Whatever the issues that divide our society, and whatever the outcome of the legislative and judicial battles of the day, we all need to find a way to live with one another in peace and harmony.

by Frederick Clarkson on Fri Nov 25, 2005 at 05:24:11 PM EST

The point is not that the Dominionist umbrella is too small for premillenialists.

The point is that by referencing the interview Paul Pressler gave to Gary North, you are directly inferring a connection between the two men (and hence their theology and causes), when in fact Paul Pressler specifically states that he had no connection with North, nor does he embrace Dominionist/Reconstructionist theology, nor has he ever done so.  

If you want to paint him that way, then it would be more honest to state, "Although Pressler adamantly denies it, I think that he is a blind-follower of Dominionist/Reconstructionist theology".

As it is, you certainly make it sound as though Pressler walks in Reconstructionist circles, which is in fact not true.

by Scott Lamb on Fri Nov 25, 2005 at 02:06:04 AM EST

Pressler is very comfortable walking in Reconstructionist circles, but it would be more accurate to say that Pressler and Reconstructionists have been walking in the same circle -- Dominionism -- and that the circle has been heavily influenced by both of them.

by Mainstream Baptist on Fri Nov 25, 2005 at 09:46:23 AM EST

You're really doing a great job with this serie of articles. Always interesting and full of interesting info. This time as well of course.
Diana, IT Freelancer currently working on the menopause treatment project.
by Diana M on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:42:28 PM EST

WWW Talk To Action

Terror At Planned Parenthood: Facing The Consequences Of The Far Right's Lies
In the wake of Friday's horrific shootings at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, we're hearing calls to deescalate the rhetoric around the......
By Rob Boston (0 comments)
Progressives Are Taking Up Religious Freedom Day
In the heat of our political moment, we sometimes don't see how our future connects deeply to our past. But the Christian Right does......
By Frederick Clarkson (2 comments)
Freedom vs. Fear: Restricting Religious Liberty Isn't The Answer To Terrorism
Last week, a community meeting was held in Spotsylvania County, Va., to discuss plans by a group of Muslims who want to relocate and......
By Rob Boston (2 comments)
Christian Right Electoral Hegemony, Rising in the States
This is a revised, updated and retitled post I did on the long term trend of significant political progress of the Christian Right and......
By Frederick Clarkson (5 comments)
Who's Been Naughty, Who's Been Nice?: The AFA Explains It All For You
If you're like me, you've been sitting around anxiously awaiting the release of the American Family Association's "Naughty or Nice" list of retailers for......
By Rob Boston (3 comments)
U.S. Department Of Judeo-Christian Values?: Kasich Proposes New Religious Propaganda Arm
According to some polls, the leading candidate for the Republican presidential nomination is Ben Carson, a retired neurosurgeon who believes that ancient Egyptians built......
By Rob Boston (5 comments)
Scripture Stories: Religious Right Claims About The `Aitken Bible' Don't Hold Up
Tomorrow several conservative members of the U.S. House of Representatives plan to hold a public reading of the Aitken Bible on the East Front......
By Rob Boston (2 comments)
The Tallest Statue in the Nation of an Individual
Many a day I drove on I 45 past the statue of Sam Houston.  The monument to the statesman is the largest in the......
By wilkyjr (1 comment)
Honoring Everyone Who Served: A Veterans Day Reflection
In 1952, a private group sought permission from government officials to erect a large cross atop Mt. Soledad near San Diego. They did it......
By Rob Boston (5 comments)
One Million Maniacs?: AFA Attacks Magazine For Highlighting Family Headed By Same-Sex Couple
I have a daughter named Claire who is 21 years old and working her first job in journalism since graduating from college. I'm awfully......
By Rob Boston (0 comments)
What Catholic Neo-Confederates Don't Want You To Know About Secession
During the summer of 2013 I wrote several posts about Catholic Neo-Confederates. My purpose was to explain the activities of libertarians such as Tom......
By Frank Cocozzelli (10 comments)
Sex And Common Sense: Texas Public School Reconsiders `Chastity' Speaker
A self-appointed expert on sex and relationships won't speak at an El Paso, Texas, high school - for now.Jason Evert runs an outfit called......
By Rob Boston (2 comments)
Two Trials that Impacted American Religion
Silent movie, Birth of a Nation, became the first blockbuster screen phenomena.  Civil Rights groups deplored the production and sought to ban it.  It......
By wilkyjr (3 comments)
The Francis Trajectory.
The recent dust-up over the meeting between Pope Francis and culture warrior Kim Davis has caused the Pontiff's stock to fall somewhat among liberals.......
By Frank Cocozzelli (11 comments)
Taking Care Of Business: Religious Right Group Plans `Religious Liberty' Ratings For Companies
My inbox this morning contained a press release from the American Family Association (AFA). The Tupelo, Miss.-based Religious Right group has exciting news: It......
By Rob Boston (2 comments)

Evidence violence is more common than believed
Think I've been making things up about experiencing Christian Terrorism or exaggerating, or that it was an isolated incident?  I suggest you read this article (linked below in body), which is about our great......
ArchaeoBob (2 comments)
Central Florida Sheriff Preached Sermon in Uniform
If anyone has been following the craziness in Polk County Florida, they know that some really strange and troubling things have happened here.  We've had multiple separation of church and state lawsuits going at......
ArchaeoBob (1 comment)
Demon Mammon?
An anthropologist from outer space might be forgiven for concluding that the god of this world is Mammon. (Or, rather, The Market, as depicted by John McMurtry in his book The Cancer Stage of......
daerie (0 comments)
Anti-Sharia Fever in Texas: This is How It Starts
The mayor of a mid-size Texan city has emerged in recent months as the newest face of Islamophobia. Aligning herself with extremists hostile to Islam, Mayor Beth Van Duyne of Irving, Texas has helped......
JSanford (2 comments)
Evangelicals Seduced By Ayn Rand Worship Crypto-Satanism, Suggest Scholars
[update: also see my closely related stories, "Crypto-Cultists" and "Cranks": The Video Paul Ryan Hoped Would Go Away, and The Paul Ryan/Ayn Rand/Satanism Connection Made Simple] "I give people Ayn Rand with trappings" -......
Bruce Wilson (10 comments)
Ted Cruz Anointed By Pastor Who Says Jesus Opposed Minimum Wage, and Constitution Based on the Bible
In the video below, from a July 19-20th, 2013 pastor's rally at a Marriott Hotel in Des Moines, Iowa, Tea Party potentate Ted Cruz is blessed by religious right leader David Barton, who claims......
Bruce Wilson (1 comment)
Galt and God: Ayn Randians and Christian Rightists Expand Ties
Ayn Rand's followers find themselves sharing a lot of common ground with the Christian Right these days. The Tea Party, with its stress on righteous liberty and a robust form of capitalism, has been......
JSanford (2 comments)
Witchhunts in Africa and the U.S.A.
Nigerian human rights activist Leo Igwe has recently written at least two blog posts about how some African Pentecostal churches are sending missionaries to Europe and the U.S.A. in an attempt to "re-evangelize the......
Diane Vera (2 comments)
Charles Taze Russell and John Hagee
No doubt exists that Texas mega-church Pastor John Hagee would be loathe to be associated with the theology of Pastor C.T. Russell (wrongly credited with founding the Jehovah's Witnesses) but their theological orbits, while......
COinMS (0 comments)
A death among the common people ... imagination.
Or maybe my title would better fit as “Laws, Books, where to find, and the people who trust them.”What a society we've become!The wise ones tell us over and over how the more things......
Arthur Ruger (0 comments)
Deconstructing the Dominionists, Part VI
This is part 6 of a series by guest front pager Mahanoy, originally dated November 15, 2007 which I had to delete and repost for technical reasons. It is referred to in this post,......
Frederick Clarkson (2 comments)
Republican infighting in Mississippi
After a bruising GOP runoff election for U.S. Senator, current MS Senator Thad Cochran has retained his position and will face Travis Childers (Democrat) in the next senate election. The MS GOP is fractured......
COinMS (3 comments)
America's Most Convenient Bank® refuses to serve Christians
Representatives of a well known faith-based charitable organization were refused a New Jersey bank’s notarization service by an atheist employee. After inquiring about the nature of the non-profit organization and the documents requiring......
Jody Lane (4 comments)
John Benefiel takes credit for GOP takeover of Oklahoma
Many of you know that Oklahoma has turned an unrecognizable shade of red in recent years.  Yesterday, one of the leading members of the New Apostolic Reformation all but declared that he was responsible......
Christian Dem in NC (2 comments)
John Benefiel thinks America is under curse because Egyptians dedicated North America to Baal
You may remember that Rick Perry put together his "Response" prayer rallies with the help of a slew of NAR figures.  One of them was John Benefiel, an Oklahoma City-based "apostle."  He heads up......
Christian Dem in NC (5 comments)

More Diaries...

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments, posts, stories, and all other content are owned by the authors. Everything else 2005 Talk to Action, LLC.