Welcome, From John Sugg of Mother Jones
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Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 10:33:31 AM EST

I'm John Sugg, senior editor for CL Media, which owns alternative newspapers in Atlanta, Tampa, Charlotte and Sarasota. It's hard to ignore the Christian fundamentalists when you live in the South. They're as thick as kudzu. But
it was a series I wrote on capital punishment that brought me face to face with the reality of the Christian Right's agenda. Underneath the surface debate over the means of execution was a story about establishing an Old Testament theocracy in American.
I began writing on the Christian Right before the term had achieved common usage. I think my first column on the subject -- I was an editor at The Miami Herald at the time -- was on Francis Schaeffer's "Christian Manifesto." I saw the book as a polemic against women's rights, but didn't pursue it much beyond that. I certainly didn't see, at that time, the tightly woven fabric that writers such as Fred Clarkson have illuminated, and that my Mother Jones article explores this month.

Being a son of the South, and having grown up a Southern Baptist, I was always intrigued by the role of religion in the region's politics. The South isn't unique in this, of course. But we do tend to overdo some things down here. For example: capital punishment.

One of the great debates in the South is over religion's proper role in the public sector. It's hard to criticize the Right, for example, on its determination to enforce "religious majoritarianism" on government today when that was essentially what MLK and the other religious leaders of the civil rights movement sought to achieve 40 years ago. (There are good arguments that define the differences, but that's another subject.)

To me, capital punishment became the religious watershed. It's an argument I'm sure many readers here will recognized: OK, if Christians want to assert their right to political ascendancy, how in the world do they justify their embrace of the very un-Jesus-like love affair with executing people. I'm from Florida, and I could never see how any Christian could reconcile his orher beliefs with the head-igniting barbecues in Raiford prison's death chamber. I witnessed Florida's last electrocution, where the guest of honor exploded, literally. He continued to moan and twitch, blood spurting allover the place, long after officials guaranteed he'd be dead. I can't see Jesus having a role in such a hideous spectacle.

Looking at capital punishment in the South in a series of articles, I discovered people such as far-right Baptist minister in Ringgold, Ga., named Don Boys. He's a Christian Reconstruction fellow-traveler (disagreeing on theological issues such as postmillennialism, but whole-heartedly favoring adoption of Old Testament law in this nation -- along with mass executions of gays, blasphemers, adulterers, etc. I also found the Reconstruction battalion -- R.J. Rushdoony, Gary North and, especially, Atlanta's Gary DeMar. Atlanta is, as I say in the MoJo article, ground zero for much of the Christian Right (hey, Ralph Reed is our native son) in general and for Reconstruction specificallly (DeMar). The patient network -- as I write in MoJo, Christianity married to Leninist tactics -- that grew from its roots in far-right politics (John Birch Society) and far-right religion, a network that eventually claimed the GOP as its own, has been the focus of much of my reporting for the last eight years.

Here's my dilemma today. In going through the day's reading, I find a well-argued essay on ending the war in Iraq. It was sent to me by a friend who had deleted the author's name. My friend asked if I thought I had common ground with the writer. I said, "Sure, I agree with his general thesis, disagree with many particulars, but find much I'd like to talk to him about."

My friend then gave me the author's name: Gary North. Yes, THAT Gary North, the First Apostle of Christian Reconstruction (or the Avignon antipope of the movement). ( North's article ) My friend chided: So you do agree with the Reconstructionists on something.

I'm still musing on that.




Display:
It's sort of embarrassing, but the websites for our newspapers aren't in very good shape today -- we're switching servers, software, blah, blah. So I can't provide direct links to a number of my articles. However, if you Google "John Sugg" and "capital punishment", you'll find many of the articles referenced in my opening message, as posted by others. Or, if you Google "John Sugg" and "theocracy" or "Christian Reconstruction", you'll find my stories dealing with religion.

by John Sugg on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 10:51:42 AM EST
I'm always bugging my publisher to do that with more pieces we run in Random Lengths News.

I'll be sure to look into them.

by Paul Rosenberg on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 12:50:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This will be a decent spot as it builds eyeballs. That's the point of the site :

Talk To Action is - among other things - a brute force business concept. Simple, really.

by Bruce Wilson on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 10:01:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]




This is one of the things I don't get about the dominionism - basing their actions and beliefs entirely on the non-Christian part of the Bible.   The message of Christ in the New Testament was that the bad old days of the vengeful God had passed, and he, Christ was the physical manifestation of God's forgiveness. Eye for an eye was "out," and turn the other cheek was "in."  

So what happened?  How did the message of forgiveness that is the foundation of Christianity get morphed into the very vengefulness and hate that it was supposed to replace?

-----------------------------
Beware of the everyday brutality of the averted gaze.
by mataliandy on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 11:47:36 AM EST

the passages where Jesus says that he came to fulfill the law, etc. and they'll say that the spiritual practice of Jesus was through OT law (except where he explicitly contradicts it).

Pretty scary stuff overall. I've heard many say that the message of Jesus is fairly unimportant and/or unfulfillable, and that his importance is based strictly upon who he was, not what he said or taught.

by moses freeman on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 03:02:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The verses being referenced are:

Matthew 5: 17-19
"Do not think that I [Jesus] came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy them, but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not one letter or one stroke of a letter will disappear from the Law until everything has been accomplished. So whoever sets aside one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Notice that He said that he came to fulfill the Law and also says that He did not come to destroy them or that the Law will never disappear. He seems to be a contradicting Himself.

While Jesus had many great teachings that are critical for how a believer should live, He still had one primary purpose for becoming a human, to die to pay for all sins. When He says that He came to fulfill the Law and Prophets, He came to take our place at the executioner's hand. So what is fulfilled in the Law is that there is no longer the threat of eternal punishment for violating the Law for the believer. Christian forgiveness is unique because it is the satisfaction of justice for those who accept His death as payment for his or her sins against God.

When He says that the Law will not disappear, He is saying that the Law is still a guide and instructor for the believer to live by. For those that don't accept His death as payment for their sins, then the Law and its ultimate punishment, eternal separation from God, is still in place.

But let's talk about His teachings. The verses above make it clear that a believer who does NOT teach "will be called least in the kingdom of heaven" and vise versa. So if we are to go by what He taught, then He taught that the Law is still in effect.

I am curious about something. Do those of you who call yourself the "Christian Left" believe in the substitutionary death of Jesus for your sins? The reason I ask, is that I have even heard ministers who call themselves Christian say that they do not believe this. Would you say that you believe in the words of the Apostles' Creed? It is the most concise statement of faith that I know.


by Vaclav on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 08:22:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

violate the "Statement of Purpose" of this website. If I may direct you to another site, Street Prophets, I would be happy to discuss this more in depth there. "Street Prophets" incidentally includes many of the same members you may find here, but is designed more for questions of theology and so forth. Most of it's members (or at least a plurality) would describe themselves as members of the "Christian Left". I am not Christian by the way (I am Muslim), so the short answer to your question is "no" of course, but I am sure that the Christians on Street Prophets would be able to give you more relevant answers

Street Prophets is a spin-off site of Daily Kos, and has a similar format.

by moses freeman on Thu Dec 01, 2005 at 12:43:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

My intent was to not to start a debate by the questions that I was asking, but to try to establish a baseline for some of the posts.

Your post did not fully quote Jesus' words which I did feel need to be corrected and you seemed to have drawn a conclusion about Jesus that was inaccurate. Also, the post about God being vengeful in the Old Testament and somehow changing in the New Testament is also in error. God is a God of justice and mercy and love and forgiveness and has been so through out eternity. So if it wrong to bring to others attention that their posts contain errors, then I guess the site was is not intended for reasonable discussion of the issues, but one-sided perspectives based upon purposeful misstatements to achieve a common goal.

To quote Thomas Jefferson who was no foreigner to either science, religion, or civil, he had the following to say:

"...our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry...that truth is great and will prevail if left to herself, that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict, unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate, errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to contradict them..." VIRGINIA STATUTE FOR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM


by Vaclav on Thu Dec 01, 2005 at 07:40:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]


We've chosen that policy lest the site sink into a morass of religious debate.

by TTA Site Administration on Thu Dec 01, 2005 at 02:41:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]





My friend chided: So you do agree with the Reconstructionists on something.
I wouldn't  worry over that.  I assume we both agree with them that water is wet, too.  That may be a dilemma for them, but not for us.

They're the ones who believe in the genetic fallacy, guilt by association and other such tribal forms of thinking. We're the ones who believe in moral ambiguity--that good people can do bad things and vice versa, which means we have to work--not just at being good, but at figuring out what it means to be good.

p.s. King was not a religious majoritarian.  His sermons and speeches were always laced with numerous references to philosophers, poets and leaders from different walks of life, underscoring the fact the principles he invoked were deeply rooted in the heart and mind of all humanity.

by Paul Rosenberg on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 01:04:20 PM EST


John thanks for revealing how your research into the rationales for supporting capital punishment led you to the influence of Reconstructionist thought.

That is a thread in this story that I suspected was there, but had not researched.

by Mainstream Baptist on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 02:11:37 PM EST

tha some Reconstructionists embrace the list of capital offenses and the prescribed punishements, and others don't.  

In the case of some, notably Gary DeMar, whose stance I wrote about in my book Eternal Hostility, it strikes me as disingenuous to say you are for capital punishment of homosexuals, but then claim that people shouldn't worry because no one is lobbying for it at the moment.

by Frederick Clarkson on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 02:28:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's like saying, "Don't worry about the fox, he's not in the hen house," while crossing your fingers behind your back and thinking "Yet..."

-----------------------------
Beware of the everyday brutality of the averted gaze.
by mataliandy on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 02:45:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]




and thank you for being here. I am an ex-Tampan as well (for now) and have followed your columns for a number of years.

Regarding Gary North, I have read his columns on LewRockwell.com for awhile, and agree with him on a surprising number of foreign policy issues. Even more bizarre, I find that I am in agreement with Pat Buchanan frequently as well. As someone who has been in the trenches of progressive politics for a couple of decades I find that pretty amazing.

I think that this is a telling example of just how bankrupt the current Republican regime is, in that they garner consistent opposition from such a wide spectrum of people.

by moses freeman on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 03:15:09 PM EST

Progressives and conservatives -- even some theocrats -- are agreeing on some important matters, especially in light of the corruption of the current regime and the leadership in Congress. On Iraq; Patriot Act; and more.

But we need to be careful as we recognize these commonalities. We agree, but often for different, albeit sometimes overlapping reasons. Coalitions are temporary. And as encouraging as it is to find substantive areas of agreement, the differences remain.

by Frederick Clarkson on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 03:21:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

when I could happily knock heads with the Paleo-conservatives. I look forward to fighting them again someday... perhaps when the republic is no longer in danger.

The stakes have never been so high.

by moses freeman on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 03:45:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

are deeply involved with theocrat Roy Moore and his populist campaign for governor of Alabama.

Be careful who you find yourself in bed with.

by Frederick Clarkson on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 04:54:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]





I'd be interested in a bit more background on Shaeffer, and how his writings have fuelled the Religious Right. I get people who scold me for including him with North, DeMar, Robertson, Reed, et al, defending him as a gentle philosopher-type. Perhaps you can provide a link to the article you authored, and thanks for the work!

by joelp on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 04:51:11 PM EST
But I have similar suspicions.

by Bruce Wilson on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 10:30:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]


I've been reading your stuff in the Atlanta CL for years now, and have passed your front page article on Dominionists to several friends.  Thanks so much for your investigations and for trying to bring this madness to light.

by MattM on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 04:49:55 PM EST


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