The Adventures of Lamby the Liberal
jhutson printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Thu Dec 22, 2005 at 12:35:00 PM EST

Maybe a li'l diagram would help some theocrats clarify their fuzzy thinking. According to an influential theocratic think tank, the terms "liberal" and "Christian" are mutually exclusive. The Chalcedon Foundation's Communications Director, Chris Ortiz, clings to the pejorative term "oxymoronic liberal Christians". Ortiz writes: "Progressives will continually lose the 'War of Ideas' because they have no faith in a transcendent God."

If Ortiz believes he's in a "War of Ideas," then he needs some better ammo: in the face of all reason, he falsely claims that liberal actually means secular. That's like saying that peanut butter means chocolate -- two things that may share the same space, and taste great together, but are distinctly different. Then Ortiz takes his error a gigantic leap further and claims that Christians who are liberal are also secularists. Huh? It's impossible to be both secular and religious at the same time; these are two distinct concepts. See, secular means "non-religious." It's all in this Venn diagram that I borrowed from a public school that teaches secular subjects like logic and science.
Lamby the Liberal goes to church and helps out poor people and the sick -- like Jesus did. Sammy the Secular used to be a liberal, but now he's not. Sammy happens to be a conservative who doesn't believe in God, but who does believe in slashing Medicaid health care funding for seniors who have trouble paying the heating bill. Sammy also believes in giving huge tax cuts to wealthy corporations and spying on fellow citizens, like liberal Quakers, without a warrant. See? Lamby and Sammy are not so much alike after all. (Note: Although Sammy does not speak for all conservatives, or all secularists, he does make a nice nut while holding down a nest in the West Wing.)

In modernist categories, things are either religious or secular. Our constitution, for example, deliberately established a secular government that took no part in religion, whether positive or negative. But "liberal" refers to that which pertains to all free citizens. If you believe, for example, that all free citizens should have the right to vote, that's  a liberal idea. The opposite of that would be some political ideology that runs toward monarchy, totalitarianism, or oligarchy or plutocracy or something, any system that limited the vote to an exclusive in-group, whether that group is defined by gender, ethnicity, social class, religious test, literacy, ancestry, or whatever. What conservatism is about, from a political point of view, is conserving the power of the in-group. What liberalism is about is spreading power out to more people.

Ortiz writes: "For my audience, when saying someone is a 'liberal' that typically refers to a secularist, left-leaning, unbeliever."

Being liberal or conservative is a different matter from being religious or secular. You can mix and match: there are liberal Christians and conservative Christians; there are secular liberals, and there are secular conservatives. But since liberals tend to give voice to more people, that means that they give voice to secularists and atheists and Hindus and whoever comes along. The ACLU is, of course, the poster-organization for this. But it is inaccurate to claim that all folks who hold or merely tolerate the expression of secular or even atheistic ideologies are necessarily liberal. You can be a conservative and an atheist, just as you can be a liberal Christian.

To claim that one cannot be both a liberal and a Christian is to defy logic. And Lamby loves his logic as much as he loves his neighbors: that's how he got to be a liberal.




Display:


by jhutson on Thu Dec 22, 2005 at 01:33:51 PM EST

Thanks for the object lesson about logic.


by Mainstream Baptist on Thu Dec 22, 2005 at 01:37:22 PM EST
Its also an important lesson here in how you challenge people's ideas, including making fun of those ideas, without attacking, ridiculing, or deliberately or ignorantly mischaracterizing people's religious beliefs.  

Admittedly, there is a gray area in this turf, and it can be tricky, but if you know the turf, going for the humor is a good thing. Its when you don't know the turf that attempts at humor can misfire.

by Frederick Clarkson on Thu Dec 22, 2005 at 01:51:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

...Trapped in a shrinking bubble of exclusivity! Public school children, quickly, grab your chalk and see if you can draw some Venn diagrams to help Fang reason his way out!



by jhutson on Thu Dec 22, 2005 at 01:58:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You suddenly have a genius for graphics. Is this new ? I love the Venn Diagram.

by Bruce Wilson on Fri Dec 23, 2005 at 02:46:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]




Typical of the far right attacks - vilify our terminology ("liberal" as a bad word), then define us their way. Of course it is ridiculous to claim that secular/non-religious = liberal, but this is accepted as fact by the far right, taught to their children, etc. Another example: I just heard a quote from a Christian Fundamentalist stating, "Everyone knows this is a country founded on Christian values..." No, actually, not everyone knows or believes this - there is a HUGE difference between a "Christian Nation" and a "nation founded by Christians" (and even that is debatable). That's why it's important that we make our case immediately and explicitly - first reject their definitions of our terms, values and beliefs, then challenge their terms and their version of "truth."

by joelp on Thu Dec 22, 2005 at 05:46:32 PM EST


WWW Talk To Action


Adopting Bias: New Va. Rules Seek To Safeguard 'Faith-Based' Bigotry
Legislators and media pundits in Washington, D.C., continue to obsess over the birth control mandate in the new health care law and whether church-related......
By Rob Boston (4 comments)
GOP Candidates Embrace a Major Religious Right Narrative
Rick Santorum and Mitt Romney's demagogic claims that President Obama is engaged in a "war against religion" are as unsurprising as they are disturbing.......
By Frederick Clarkson (5 comments)
NAR Apostle Harold Caballeros Heads Guatemala Foreign Ministry
In January 2012, with the inauguration of former military general Otto Pérez Molina as Guatemala's president, NAR apostle Harold Caballeros took charge of Guatemala's......
By Bruce Wilson (2 comments)
As Eddie Long Controversy Grows, Video Emerges of 'Rabbi' Messer Wrapping Paula White in Torah
A Christian Post article dated February 5 is one of many reports of denials by televangelist Paula White and her attorney of any ties......
By Rachel Tabachnick (9 comments)
Garlow Introduced Gingrich, Called for Pastors Revolt Against IRS Rules at NAR Church in Nevada
On Friday night Newt Gingrich spoke at the "Prayer for America" event at the International Church of Las Vegas (ICLV) led by Apostle Paul......
By Rachel Tabachnick (3 comments)
A Must Read Book: "The Good News Club"
For anyone who wants to read a book that really goes inside the movement to indoctrinate children through our public schools, I highly recommend......
By Chris Rodda (3 comments)
More On Yale's Templeton-Funded "Spiritual Capital Initiative"
Should Chick-Fil-A be known for its extensive ties to, and funding of, some of the most aggressively anti-gay groups in America, as well as......
By Bruce Wilson (4 comments)
Gettting Well Versed
Michelle Boorstein at The Washington Post's "Under God" blog reports that Faithful America's petition calling for Kansas House Speaker Michael O'Neal to resign now......
By Frederick Clarkson (3 comments)
Alabama State Senator: Pay Increases for Teachers are Against 'Biblical Principle'
This is a new twist on "biblical economics" that I've not heard before.  According to Alabama State Sen. Shadrack McGill, a 62% pay increase......
By Rachel Tabachnick (5 comments)
Wagner Recognized by Delaware House for Commissioning Apostles (Copy of Tribute Included)
This morning I contacted the offices of Rep. Daniel B. Short and Chief Clerk of the House Richard Puffer and confirmed that C. Peter......
By Rachel Tabachnick (7 comments)
Trial Date Set for Bishop Finn
The trial date for Bishop Robert W. Finn,of the Diocese of Kansas City-St. Joseph, Missouri will be September 24, 2012.  Finn and the diocese......
By Frank Cocozzelli (3 comments)
The Culture of Demonization and Imprecatory Prayer
We have written a great deal here at Talk to Action about the Religious Right culture of conspiracy theory, labeling and demonization as animating......
By Frederick Clarkson (3 comments)
To Bigotry No Sanction, to Persecution No Assistance
As the finale of our extended celebration of Religious Freedom Day, we are honored to welcome George Washington as a guest front pager.  ......
By George Washington (0 comments)
George Barna and the New Apostolic Reformation
Given the secretive nature of the movement, documenting the involvement of public figures in C. Peter Wagner's New Apostolic Reformation can be a time-consuming......
By Bruce Wilson (2 comments)
Gingrich, Alinsky, and the Christian Right Grand Conspiracy Narrative
Gingrich's claims about an Alinsky-Obama-socialist conspiracy against Christianity and freedom echo conspiracy theories from the Tea Parties, Glenn Beck, the John Birch Society, and......
By Chip Berlet (0 comments)

Harold Caballeros, October 5, 2006, #1
On October 5, 2006, Harold Cabballeros, founder and senior pastor of El Shaddai Church in Guatemala City, spoke at the "Spirit in the World: The Dynamics of Pentecostal Growth and Experience" symposium sponsored by......
Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
Truth Wins Out Reports on Exodus International's Attempt at Rebranding
An extensive report has been posted at Truth Wins Out (TWO) on the rebranding of Exodus International, the discredited and financially strapped pray-away-the-gay organization. The report is titled "The Exodus SmokeScreen" and subtitled, "Exodus......
Rachel Tabachnick (0 comments)
Breast cancer awareness T-shirt prompts dispute at skating rink
crossposted from The Clarion Ledger) http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012202040 349 ""I am offended as a mother; as the daughter of a cancer patient; as a Christian woman; as a fundraiser and donor of time and money to......
COinMS (0 comments)
Delaware state house Dems distance themselves from Wagner tribute
The Democrats in the Delaware state House of Representatives are in full damage control mode over a tribute given back in January to C. Peter Wagner, a prominent leader of the New Apostolic......
Christian Dem in NC (1 comment)
Is Peter Wagner lying about commendation from state of Delaware?
Those of us who have watched the New Apostolic Reformation have come to expect bizarre claims.  Well, today  C. Peter Wagner made one of the most bizarre claims yet.  He sent out an......
Christian Dem in NC (1 comment)
New dominionist effort to target Hollywood with prayer
In yet more proof that the New Apostolic Reformation is trying to make itself heard in a big way this year, late yesterday several leaders of that movement got together to announce a......
Christian Dem in NC (0 comments)
Santorum Accuses Colleges of Anti-Religious "Indoctrination" But Gingrich Said it First
CBS and other media outlets have pounced on a Rick Santorum claim, that America's colleges and universities are hotbeds of anti-religious "indoctrination", but Newt Gingrich has been saying that for years. As Santorum declared......
Bruce Wilson (2 comments)
Leader of NC gay marriage ban effort, in his own words
cross-posted at dKos One of the leaders of the effort to write a gay marriage ban into North Carolina's constitution is Patrick Wooden, the pastor of Upper Room Church of God in Christ in......
Christian Dem in NC (2 comments)
AFA endorses AIDS denialism
If Public Policy Polling's early numbers are accurate (and there's little reason to doubt they are) Newt Gingrich will likely take the lead in national polling this week.  In light of this, there's......
Christian Dem in NC (1 comment)
Family Research Council chaplain openly calls for non-Christians to be banned from public office
Anyone who's studied the religious right can't help but notice a pattern to how they've operated over the last three decades.  They get a little bit of power, only to overreach and get smacked......
Christian Dem in NC (4 comments)
Cindy Jacobs prophecies divine intervention unless we elect Repubs
Late last week, New Apostolic Reformation "prophetess" Cindy Jacobs announced the yearly "Word of the Lord" from the Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders.  (h/t to PFAW's Right Wing Watch). This "Word" makes for......
Christian Dem in NC (3 comments)
Robert Jeffress: First Amendment protections invite wrath of God
We already knew that the religious right would like nothing better than to sweep away the First Amendment.  Well, one of its more prominent leaders just came out and said it in terms as......
Christian Dem in NC (3 comments)
Cindy Jacobs announces 2012 prayer initiative--and declares war on separation of church and state
Late last night, Cindy Jacobs announced the formation of a major prayer drive with the goal of influencing the election.  The campaign, called "FastForward," is sponsored by her newly formed United States Reformation Prayer......
Christian Dem in NC (2 comments)
Personhood returns
Having soundly been defeated at the ballot box, the Personhood initiative in Mississippi has been resurrected via the new governor of Mississippi, Phil Bryant and his allies in the state government. For the first......
COinMS (0 comments)
Exposing The Dark Side Of Tupelo MS
It’s really ironic that the so-called Christian Religious Right (ie., AFA) are seemingly dedicated to the unnecessary bashing of Paganism when Pagans made such a well-documented historical contribution toward the rise of Christianity. For......
AlBratt (0 comments)

More Diaries...




All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments, posts, stories, and all other content are owned by the authors. Everything else © 2005 Talk to Action, LLC. Powered by Scoop