Donate to or support
Talk to Action








The Indian River Incident : What You Can Do

link > The "Stop the ACLU Coalition" Shaming Project
How you can help stop "Stop The ACLU" just by sending a few emails



 'Left Behind' video game imageThe Shaming Project

does the violence of "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" bother you ? If so, what can you do ? Well, to begin with you can email Jonathan Hutson's stories to people you know. That will help to bring more public scrutiny of the game. Public shaming really works ! Just click on the "email" icon and link at the top or bottom of the story and you'll be taken to a form that will allow you email the first story, The Purpose Driven Life Takers or the latest installment without leaving this site. Thanks. 'Left Behind' video game image




Dobson: Liberals Have No Values
By Frederick Clarkson Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 12:27:27 PM EST printable version print story
Larry King says that James Dobson, head of Focus on the Family, is one of his favorite guests.  The reason?  "You always know where he stands. That's what makes a great guest."

Indeed, for the promotion of religious and antigay bigotry, crackpot science and bogus history, one can hardly find anyone better.

Millions of people saw this interview on November 22nd, but far fewer were probably aware of how far out on a limb Dobson was on many important matters.  What's more, as far as I can tell, there was little media or blogger coverage of Dobson's interview, which was chock full of extraordinary material deserving of response.


The sole news outlet that reported on the interview, according to a Google News Search, was The Rocky Mountain News.

The paper reported mostly on the Ted Haggard story, but pulled a few remarkable quotes from the interview, notably one in which Dobson claims that liberals have no values and do not know the difference between right and wrong:

Those again on the liberal end of the spectrum are those who have no value system, or at least they say there is no moral and immoral. There's no right or wrong. . . . But when a religious leader, or especially an evangelical, falls, guess who is the most judgmental of him and calling him a hypocrite? . . . Those that said there is no right and wrong in the first place. The truth of the matter is there is right and wrong. And we all within our midst have failures, and they do occur."

OK, liberals, what do you have to day about that?  

Meanwhile, Dobson says that Christian counseling could cure disgraced evangelist Ted Haggard of his homosexuality in three to five years.

KING: Well, how could a gay person preach against gays? How could you do that?

DOBSON: Well, a lot of people wonder that. He, obviously, was, again, at war with himself. He was involved in activities that I think horrified him. He said that he fought against it, but he also knew what he believed.

It was not hypocrisy. It was a struggle between behavior and the belief system.

KING: How long does counseling last in this kind of case?

DOBSON: It could be a long time. I would think that the restoration process here, if Reverend Haggard chooses to go through with it, would be three to five years.

KING: And is success the fact that he is no longer gay? Would that be your definition of success?

DOBSON: That would be part of it. It's a spiritual restoration, too. It's a personal and marital restoration. It involves every aspect of life.

Here is Dobson explaining his admittedly controversial theory of homosexuality:

KING: We discussed this before in the past, but not recently: Do you still believe that being gay is a choice rather than a given?

DOBSON: I never did believe that.

KING: Oh, you don't believe it.

DOBSON: I don't believe that. Neither do I believe it's genetic. I said that...

KING: Then what is it?

DOBSON: I said that on your program one time and both of us got a lot of mail for it. I don't blame homosexuals for being angry when people say they've made a choice to be gay because they don't.

It usually comes out of very, very early childhood, and this is very controversial, but this is what I believe and many other people believe, that is has to do with an identity crisis that occurs to early to remember it, where a boy is born with an attachment to his mother and she is everything to him for about 18 months, and between 18 months and five years, he needs to detach from her and to reattach to his father.

It's a very important developmental task and if his dad is gone or abusive or disinterested or maybe there's just not a good fit there. What's he going to do? He remains bonded to his mother and...

KING: Is that clinically true or is that theory?

DOBSON: No, it's clinically true, but it's controversial. What homosexual activists, especially, would like everybody to believe is that it is genetic, that they don't have any choice. If it were genetic, Larry -- and before we went on this show, you and I were talking about twin studies -- if it were genetic, identical twins would all have it. Identical twins, if you have a homosexuality in one twin, it would be there in the other.

Dobson later indulged in some well debunked revisionist history. Dobson claims that there is no such thing as separation of church and state, while the historical record clearly shows that while it is true that the phrase separation of church and state is not found in the constitution or the first Amendment, the phrase was in wide use among leading thinkers at the time, and that Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists was an effort by Jefferson to explain his understanding of the meaning of the First Amendment. That is part of the reason why the Supreme Court borrowed the phrase to in explaining what it meant in interpreting the first amendment, and why it has become a standard part of our understanding of the meaning of the constitution.

KING: But we have a separation of church and state.

DOBSON: Beg your pardon?

KING: We have a separation of church and state.

DOBSON: Who says?

KING: You don't believe in separation of church and state?

DOBSON: Not the way you mean it. The separation of church and state is not in the Constitution. No, it's not. That is not in the Constitution. That was...

KING: It's in the Bill of Rights.

DOBSON: It's not in the Bill of Rights. It's not anywhere in a foundational document. The only place where the so-called "wall of separation" was mentioned was in a letter written by Jefferson to a friend. That's the only place. It has been picked up and made to be something it was never intended to be.

What it has become is that the government is protected from the church, instead of the other way around, which is that church was designed to be protected from the government.

KING: I'm going to check my history.

And finally, it is worth noting that the ever-militant Dobson is more than a little politically tone deaf. The Terry Schiavo episode was a  turning point for many Americans' understanding of how extreme and how powerful the religious right had become in the GOP, and in the government.

KING: On reflection though, were you politically wrong on Schiavo?

DOBSON: Absolutely not.

KING: Not politically?

DOBSON: Not politically or morally wrong. I believe that the position that many, many people took -- and there were a lot of them -- who felt that Terri Schiavo was being deprived of life and liberty -- she was handicapped, she was damaged, but since when do we kill people who have a handicap? Where do you start...

KING: Do you believe it was OK for Congress to get involved?

DOBSON: I think they should have done that. They took a moral stance. They took a courageous stance.

 

As of this writing, there is no significant news or blog coverage of the matters discussed in this post.  As far as I can tell, no liberal religious or political leaders or liberal pundits have weighed in on the latest outrages from Dobson. Much has been made in recent years of how John Kerry did not respond to the Swift Boat Veterans attack on his character and military service record.  But I daresay that the silence in response to Dobson epitomizes what has been going on in America for a generation: a failure to seriously engage the religious right.




Display:
did a pretty good job of gently-but-directly challenging Dobson on some key points.

So where is everyone else?  

by Frederick Clarkson on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 12:38:34 PM EST


Perhaps because on Thanksgiving eve not many folks were much interested in what Dobson had to say--or Larry King, for that matter. Had this interview aired in the week before the election--sandwiched between the outings of Mark Foley and Ted Haggard--it would have gotten buzz. But it didn't and Dobson said nothing newsworthy, nothing more than he's put forth for years. Without a telegenic drama, especially one with a "tick-tock" countdown and lots of street theater--Roy Moore on the courthouse steps defying the federal judges; Terri Schiavo's death watch accompanied by a chorus of fulminating GOP Congressmen, climaxing with a crosscountry midnight flight by the President--the appearance of a hectoring  dour-faced scold in this post-election holiday season doesn't generate "must-see" TV for the viewers at home.

by mreyn on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 04:09:04 PM EST
We are ataling about the liberal leadership in the United States. Dobson has reached millions of people with dangerous and demagogic views. They have so far, gone unanswered.

Election season is not the only time we need to hear from leaders, and by leaders I am not only talking about polititians.

Thanksgiving or no, the media keeps reporting, pundits offer opinions and bloggers keep blogging.

Where are they?

by Frederick Clarkson on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 04:50:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fred, I humbly disagree--we should be talking about "most folks" because they are the ones that delivered the stunning rebuke to the Bush/Right-wing GOP in this last election cycle, and they are the ones who have the potnetial to keep this fringe from exercisins the power they mustered in 2000 and 2004. The Religious Right machine appeals to and consequently musters a minority of the activtive Christian voting bloc. Granted they are dangerous and have extraordinary resources when compared to  progressive and moderate professing Christian efforts--but that is, has changed. Though James Dobson and FOTF claim a--what? 4 million listener base--don't believe for one moment that all those who listen to the ginger-haired panjandrum adhere to to his political exhortations. As for the mdeida, I've already explained that; as for liberal pundits, I see no dearth in commentary. However, until this machine is exposed and taken apart in fundamental ways--i.e.,its money, its broader agenda (way beyond abortion, gays, school prayer, evolution) it's all just dancing in contra-step to the gospel tune the right-wing sings.

by mreyn on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 10:21:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am talking about engaging the wider audience of folks who are receiving Christian Rightists messages from Dobson, still one of the most influential men in America with a much wider audience -- the national audience of Larry King.  

There is a reason, just for example, that voters passed antigay marriage amendments in all but one of the states where is has been attempted. And it is not soleley because of religious right voters.

And BTW, please don't drink the Democratic cool aid on the election results, which were neither stunning or particularly surprising. Historically, out of power parties do well in the sixth year of a two term presidency. The only thing that surprises is that the Demodrats did not do better. As for the religious right, it is just an election. They will be back big and strong and regrouped for the next one.

Democrats and liberals have a simple choice. They can engage when opportunities like Dobson's interview come up, or they can reassure themselves that the religious right is on the ropes and all is well in the land -- just as they have pretty much for the past 30 years and go shopping.  After all, we all know that no one could possibly take the religious right seriously -- right?

by Frederick Clarkson on Sat Nov 25, 2006 at 09:42:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]





Fred, we both agree on that item--meanwhile there willl be reposturing of leadership in the RR in the ensuing year, as already seen here in Alabama and in Georgia post-election. Not to fear-- I've not been imbibing Dem kool-aid. What I found interesting in the election results were mainly internals in the states among the broad white evangelical and Catholic voters, the failures of the well-greased RR machinery to bring in abundant sheaves for Blackwell, DeVos, Santorum, Hayworth and others.  

by mreyn on Sat Nov 25, 2006 at 01:05:34 PM EST

And Larry King didn't do his homework for the Dobson interview.

You can't expect King to defend liberalism, but he missed some great opportunities for challenging Dobson's extremist positions.

King could have asked Dobson why he doesn't seize on Haggard as an opportunity to prove his  'homosexuality is treatable' theory?

King needs to read up on the separation of Church and State.

King could have destroyed Dobson's position on the Terry Schaivo episode.

It would be interesting to see what a competent interviewer would do with Doibson. 

 

 



by justintime on Sun Nov 26, 2006 at 01:43:20 PM EST
I stopped watching Larry King years ago -- actually, I never really started watching him.  He is one of the interviewers to whom politicians and pundits flock whenever they want to get their viewpoint across unchallenged.

He's a lightweight who is fine when hosting celebrities plugging their latest book or cause, but if you're looking for a hardhitting interview, King's the wrong man to watch.

by tacitus on Sun Nov 26, 2006 at 01:57:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dobson was my only reason for watching the show.
Dobson on the Stephen Colbert or Jon Stewart show would be great entertainment.
The big challenge would be to expose Dobson in front of his faithful supporters. 



by justintime on Sun Nov 26, 2006 at 02:27:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think that Dobson would allow himself to be interviewed by anyone but a 'lightweight'.
He's far too clever for that. Let's see some of these paragons of the so-called 'Christian Right' get interviewed by really savvy 'Christian Left' people!  They would be smeared.

by rdrjames on Sun Nov 26, 2006 at 10:23:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So it is important to take one's opportunities where one finds them. Rather than blaming Larry King, who went about as far as his congenial format could go, how about demanding that progressive religious and political leaders take the ball and run with it?

by Frederick Clarkson on Mon Nov 27, 2006 at 12:54:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]






WWW Talk To Action


Author of Ugandan Anti-Homosexuality Bill and the "College of Prayer International"
The Uganda New Vision reports the latest on David Bahati, the MP behind the proposed draconian "Anti-Homosexuality Bill"; he was among attendees at a......
By Richard Bartholomew (2 comments)
Rick Warren Repudiates Martin Ssempa
From Warren Throckmorton's blog: STATEMENT FROM PASTOR RICK & KAY WARREN REGARDING ACTIVITIES OF MARTIN SSEMPA IN UGANDA Martin Ssempa does not represent me,......
By Richard Bartholomew (2 comments)
Dobson And Destiny: Will Religious Right Leader Turn His Focus To Electioneering?
James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family (FOF), is not a happy camper these days.  "What is happening in Washington right now is......
By Rob Boston (4 comments)
Resource Page on John Hagee and Christian Zionism
Special Focus:  Christian Zionism Following are a list of articles on Christian Zionism that have been posted on Talk2action.org over a period of several......
By Bruce Wilson (1 comment)
Progressive Catholics in Maine Push Back on Question One
On Tuesday November 3rd, voters in Maine can either vote yes or no on "Question One," a potential people's veto of recently enacted legislation......
By Frank Cocozzelli (7 comments)
Renewed Controversy Over Hagee's Sermons
Hagee's controversial sermons are again an issue in the aftermath of Elie Wiesel's appearance at Hagee's church.  This was further escalated after Max Blumenthal......
By Rachel Tabachnick (0 comments)
Back to Israel, Back To Africa ? : The Economist on Pro-Israel Anti-Semitism
As The Economist's Democracy In America blog notes , support for Israel doesn't preclude anti-Semitism: Bigotry comes in many forms, and can easily be......
By Bruce Wilson (1 comment)
CBN Scrubs "Witch Candy" Blog Post
The Christian Broadcasting Network has caved in to scoffers and mockers and scrubbed a blog post which explained the dangers of Halloween - specifically,......
By Richard Bartholomew (8 comments)
Rick Warren Must Denounce Antigay Bill in Uganda
We here at Political Research Associates are calling on Pastor Rick Warren to denounce a bill now being debated in Uganda that criminalizes homosexuality.......
By abbyscher (1 comment)
Family Member Stupak: "I am not trying to kill health reform"
Blue Dog Democrats in Congress played a "magnificent" role in blocking health care reform during the Clinton administration. And, under the "courageous" and "smart"......
By Bruce Wilson (2 comments)
Extreme Lobbying : Southern Baptists' Richard Land Defends Nazi Analogies
Earlier this month I criticized some offensive comments about health-care reform made by Richard Land, the top lobbyist for the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC).......
By Rob Boston (5 comments)
An Open Letter To Elie Wiesel
Dear Mr. Wiesel, Your years of tireless campaigning for human rights and against anti-Semitism have earned our deepest respect. For this reason we have......
By Rachel Tabachnick (1 comment)
Donohue, Scalia, and Religious Supremacy
On October 7, 2009 the U.S. Supreme Court heard arguments on the constitutionality of a seven-foot cross currently standing in the Mojave National Preserve......
By Frank Cocozzelli (6 comments)
Worldwide Biblical Zionists
This is Part Three in a series of articles on why we need J Street, and a new perspective on the meaning of "pro-Israel."......
By Rachel Tabachnick (1 comment)
Top Ten Reasons Christian Zionism "Impairs Israel's Interests"
This is Part Two in a series about the dangers of Christian Zionism, and why organizations like J Street are badly needed to provide......
By Rachel Tabachnick (0 comments)

US News & World Report Showcases Creationist Ray Comfort
US News and World Report's Dan Gilgoff has charitably provided evangelist Ray Comfort a media platform in the form of a US News & World "exclusive" through which Comfort defends his efforts to distribute,......
By Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
Atheist billboard in Central Florida
The organization "Atheists of Florida" sponsored a billboard promoting atheism in Lakeland, Florida.  I, however, have some concerns. ......
By ArchaeoBob (1 comment)
Transcript: Billy Graham and Richard Nixon, February 21, 1973
The following is my own transcript of a 20 minute phone conversation between Richard Nixon and Billy Graham, on February 23, 1973. As far as I am aware this is the only publicly available,......
By Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
Rifqa Bary being sent back to Ohio now
Well, there's a change in this case.  After the judge gets immigration documents and so on from the parents, he will send her back. ......
By ArchaeoBob (0 comments)
The War on The War on Christmas Goes To Pot
The first day of Fall could be considered the official launch date for the annual war on the war on Christmas, which represents a significant part of the the American Family Association business model......
By Bruce Wilson (1 comment)
School Officials off the hook
Today it is reported that the judge excused the school officials who violated the agreement they had over separation of Church and State. ......
By ArchaeoBob (0 comments)
Dominionists trying to outlaw birth control
Well, they're at it again in Florida. ......
By ArchaeoBob (2 comments)
No Danger for Rifqa Bary
The FDLE just completed an investigation and found "no credible reports of threats" against Rifqa Bary. ......
By ArchaeoBob (1 comment)
Truth hitting the mainstream!
I've despaired of ever seeing anything critical or exposing Dominionism hit the mainstream press.  There is now an exception. ......
By ArchaeoBob (0 comments)
Extremism?
The term extremism is currently in vogue to describe hate groups and other malcontents listed as such by knowledgeable monitors like SPLC and others in the T2A sidebar, but while we all know what......
By Jay Taber (2 comments)
My Netroots Nation Panel Talk
Where Do We Stand in the Bright Light of History? Netroots Nation August 14, 2009 Thank You, Professor Ledewitz, for initiating this discussion of a progressive vision for church and state -- and Netroots......
By Frederick Clarkson (0 comments)
Transcript, Jan. 18, 2009 Steven Anderson Sermon Excerpt
Note: the sermon excerpt video and transcript below, from a January 18, 2009 sermon by pastor Steven Anderson of the Tempe, Arizona Independent Baptist Church, begins at approximately 21:30 into Anderson's  one hour, four......
By Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
More anti-Muslim provocation
The local paper reports that students in Gainsville, Florida are wearing T-shirts with "ISLAM IS OF THE DEVIL" printed on them. ......
By ArchaeoBob (1 comment)
Rifqa Bary to stay in Florida
The young ex-Muslim girl who ran away from her parents will be allowed to stay in Florida.  The news article has strong indications that this is purely political. ......
By ArchaeoBob (10 comments)
Framing Fascism
In her recent article, Sara Robinson argues the United States is well on its way to becoming a totalitarian, fascist state. As evidence of this inevitability, she cites current town hall disruptions and threats......
By Jay Taber (11 comments)
Rock Paper Scissors
GOP-sponsored vigilantism has happened before. It is an integral part of domestic terrorism aimed at ethnic minorities and other sub-populations targeted by White Nationalism and Christian Fundamentalism. Catholics, Jews, Blacks, and Native Americans have......
By Jay Taber (2 comments)
PA Shooter's Church taught: "You can commit mass murder, then still go to heaven"
George Sodini, the 48-year-old misogynist who shot up a Pennsylvania Gym full of women on Aug. 4th, killing three women before turning the gun on himself, believed God wouldn't judge him by his actions.......
By Stacey Tallitsch (0 comments)
Vatican grilling Catholic sisters
While I am not Catholic, I accidentally ran across this article which is of interest to us on this blog - it involves Vatican actions that concern attempts at political control... ......
By ArchaeoBob (3 comments)
Sect Controls Women's Destinies
by Carolyn Jessop and Laura Palmer On The Issues Magazine Had I not escaped one night five years ago with my eight children from the manipulation and control of the FLDS (Fundamentalist Church of......
By On The Issues Magazine (4 comments)
The Religion of Fear
<h2> Living on Guard</h2> In The Religion of Fear, Jason C. Bivins examines conservative evangelical culture as it intersects with America's love affair with spectacular violence and the popular culture of fright that has......
By Jay Taber (2 comments)
Monvee: Profiles of the Mega-churched.
[ed: updated from diary section] Over the last 20 years, a consolidation from the small protestant church has given way to the "Mega-church" where community fellowship goes to die, and prosperity-gospel-rock-concerts are born. Just......
By Stacey Tallitsch (10 comments)
Woman Shoots ex-Husband in Groin, To "Let The Demons Out"
An investigating detective read an entry from a three ring binder, written shortly before the crime: "I know now what I have to do. There are three demonic spirits in (Dr. Loher), one assigned......
By Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
Separation of Church and State attacked in Florida
A Central Florida organization, "The Community Issues Council" has funded a number of billboards attacking the separation of Church and State, using "Quotes" from some of the Founding Fathers. ......
By ArchaeoBob (5 comments)
Radio host: We're only united through Christianity
Most of you in Indiana may know about Peter Heck, who hosts a daily radio show in Kokomo and puts out a column that appears in several newspapers across the state and in OneNewsNow.......
By Christian Dem in NC (1 comment)
Cindy Jacobs--the new leader of the NAR
You may remember that Lou Engle has made moves of late to position himself as the new power in the religious right.  He's a member of the Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders, a group......
By Christian Dem in NC (2 comments)
James F. Linzey Espouses anti-Semitic, White Racialist Conspiracy Theory
James F. Linzey is a prominent, active duty chaplain in the United States military. Linzey has stated that he was the command chaplain for the Operation Iraqi Freedom troop mobilization prior to the US......
By Bruce Wilson (3 comments)
White Supremacist named as Holocaust Museum Shooter
An 89 year old, vehemently antiSemitic  Ron Paul supporter has been named by police as the gunman who opened fire in the Holocaust Museum shortly after noon today: Gunman, guard shot at Holocaust museum......
By CynthiaGee (0 comments)
From Focus On The Family to La Familia Michoacana
I didn't think my work on the religous right would converge with what I'm doing on the narcoguerra in Mexico...but here it is: the Faith-Based Cartel. ......
By julydogs (2 comments)
A Pagan Among the Mainstream Churches in Boise
The participation by an "out" Pagan in the Idaho Hunger Relief Task Force proves that some religions will accept and welcome help from all quarters, in recognition that we are all human.  The glaring......
By Chiawana (3 comments)
Clarkson on CounterSpin
Hear me discuss the Tiller assasination this week on the nationally syndicated radio program CounterSpin, the progressive media criticism show produced by Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR).  You can also listen via Mp3......
By Frederick Clarkson (0 comments)

More Diaries...


Donate to or support
Talk to Action

Left Behind: Eternal Forces: Installments of Jonathan Hutson's Talk To Action expose series on the "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" video game have been viewed by up to 1/2 million people. See our site section featuring Over 35 original articles covering the controversial "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" video game that has provoked a boycott by a coalition of religious groups and a letter writing campaign urging Walmart to stop selling the game. Media inquiries click here
(image: detail from Francoise Dubois' rendition of the Bartholomew's Day Massacre reveals the actual nature of religious warfare)