The Godless Democrats
Carlos printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 03:29:18 PM EST
Recently I mentioned Rod Dreher's Crunchy Con Manifesto as an example of how the Christian Right could potentially think and vote outside the Falwell/Dobson/Perkins Republican box. This week Dreher wrote an impressive challenge to the  theocon global warming conventional wisdom. Dreher is also blogging at beliefnet and some of his ideas are worth paying attention to.
Reflecting on the problem Democrats seem to have with religious voters, Dreher writes:

I am not saying that Democrats are "godless." That would be absurd. I am saying, though, that the Democratic Party has made it very difficult, even impossible, for religious conservatives who might otherwise favor Democratic policies on environmental protection, on the economy, on foreign policy, and what not, to affiliate with them. Why? Because if you are a social conservative -- if you are pro-life, hold traditional views on sexual morality and family structure, and have serious concerns about the direction of biotechnology -- it is quite clear that the Democrats do not want you around stinking up the place with your fundamentalist views. This is a real shame, as Ross notes, because it gives the Republican Party room to take religious conservatives for granted. But we remember how Gov. Casey's party treated him, and it's going to take the Dems a long, long time to overcome that.

Dreher mentions Ross Douthat and perhaps it would be of interest to also quote what he has to say:

Andrew, echoing Kevin Phillips, makes a big deal about the GOP becoming America's first "religious party." But of course that isn't what's happened at all - it's that the Democrats have become America's first aggressively-secularist party. The McGovern cadres took over the Democrats long before the Christian Right took over the GOP, or vice versa, and the whole rightward migration of Catholics and evangelicals is a response to a Democratic Party gone secularist. Ann Coulter is indeed despicable, as Andrew says, but her "Godless" slur contains a kernel of truth - the GOP is as religious as it is today because the Democratic Party is playing (for perfectly sensible reasons) to a secularist voting bloc that is essentially unparalleled in American history. Andrew has decided - reasonably, given his political and religious views - to align himself with that bloc. But he shouldn't pretend that it's the religious right that's out of step with America's political traditions. It's his own side, not ours, that's a new thing under the sun.

Andrew Sullivan's take on this is worth reading too.

This theme of the Democratic party scaring off religious voters is a useful theme for the right, and has even been co-opted by some on the left like Amy Sullivan, Jim Wallis and Rabbi Lerner. Even though this theme is largely a rhetorical contrivance of the religious right, religious and secular progressives have not been very effective in responding to it.




Display:
Various studies have shown that in the typical poll of church attendence people overstate their participation. Rather than being around 40% the number appears to be in the low 20's.

What this means is that the religious right consistently overstates the size of their followers in order to add weight to their movement.

The US is a secular society, with a core group of about 15-20% who are politically guided by religion. In addition there is another group who are "Sunday Christians". That is the belong to a religious organization, but give it only minimal attention. Then there are the majority whose religious character is completely nominal.

When polled people give the socially acceptable answer to contentious questions. Why should I tell a complete stranger over the phone what my beliefs are in various areas such as the existence of God or the validity of the Bible?

The Dems are correct in keeping the party secular. That means respecting people's rights to believe as they wish and to belong (or not belong) to the religious organization of their choice. This has always been the norm in the US ever since the dangers of a religiously based government were highlighted in the early colonial days in Salem and other places.

The religious right is misrepresenting the attitudes of the public in this area as they do in so many others.

-- Policies not Politics
by rdf on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 04:27:15 PM EST

but what can the Dems do with the perception that the Democratic party is not simply secular, but agressively anti-religious?

by Carlos on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 04:55:56 PM EST
Parent
Well if there is one thing I know, it is that the Dems won't be asking me for political advice.

Having said that, I think that "reasonable" church leaders need to speak up in favor of keeping politics out of religion and vice versa.

A few choice press conferences with party leaders or candidates would help. (Not the type of pandering that the Dems are trying now).

Perhaps religious leaders should invite politicians to give guest sermons on the general issues of church state separation. This wouldn't violate the charitable status of the churches. There are plenty of people in the Dem party that could act as speakers who are not in office or currently seaking office that would be above criticism on that account.

-- Policies not Politics
by rdf on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 06:23:56 PM EST
Parent




Don't agree with Amy Sullivan, Wallis, et al. They are certainly entitled to their personal beliefs and to act on them but it would be a mistake to allow them to speak for the Democratic Party. The right has done more than enough pandering and I suspect that the electorate is catching on to the hypocrisy that accompanies it. Perhaps I'm naïve but it seems that the time has arrived for some integrity in politics. The right didn't gain votes by being `religious' or `Christian' but by pandering to a base that thought they had a lock on religion and Christianity and intimidated anyone who disagreed, charging them with `secularism.'. They were able to do this, in part, because moderates and liberals, who are less combative and tend not to wear their religion on their sleeves, were mute.

When all is said and done, the combination of liberal, moderate, and secular citizens accounts for about 70 to 75% of the population. If they act as a coalition to express shared values and address issues rather than religion, they are likely to be successful. It is also important for moderate and liberal clergy of all religions to be visible, speak out for their values, and be critical when necessary about the machinations of the religious right. This is starting to happen. One example is in Ohio where more than 30 moderate Christian and Jewish clergy in Ohio filed an IRS complaint against two fundamentalist churches who they said were exploiting their pulpits for political purposes. When the IRS had not responded within three months, they filed an additional complaint - this time with 54 clergy signing on. Whatever the outcome of any IRS investigation, the coverage of this filing by newspapers and TV - nationally as well as locally - serves the important goals of making voters aware of these problems and offers a model for actively confronting them. The filing may also helps to rein in some of the most egregious violators of church-state separation, in which case that will be a dividend.

Incidentally, don't always agree with Andrew Sulivan but in this case, I think he's right on - so conservatives and liberals can agree. As for fundamentalists - crunchy or otherwise - we should let them do their thing. Suspect we can't win over the vast majority of them.


by Psyche on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 02:17:26 AM EST



WWW Talk To Action


Cognitive Dissonance & Dominionism Denial
There is new research on why people are averse to hearing or learning about the views of ideological opponents. Based on evaluation of five......
By Frederick Clarkson (374 comments)
Will the Air Force Do Anything To Rein In Its Dynamic Duo of Gay-Bashing, Misogynistic Bloggers?
"I always get nervous when I see female pastors/chaplains. Here is why everyone should as well: "First, women are not called to be pastors,......
By Chris Rodda (195 comments)
The Legacy of Big Oil
The media is ablaze with the upcoming publication of David Grann's book, Killers of the Flower Moon. The shocking non fiction account of the......
By wilkyjr (110 comments)
Gimme That Old Time Dominionism Denial
Over the years, I have written a great deal here and in other venues about the explicitly theocratic movement called dominionism -- which has......
By Frederick Clarkson (101 comments)
History Advisor to Members of Congress Completely Twists Jefferson's Words to Support Muslim Ban
Pseudo-historian David Barton, best known for his misquoting of our country's founders to promote the notion that America was founded as a Christian nation,......
By Chris Rodda (113 comments)
"Christian Fighter Pilot" Calls First Lesbian Air Force Academy Commandant a Liar
In a new post on his "Christian Fighter Pilot" blog titled "BGen Kristin Goodwin and the USAFA Honor Code," Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan......
By Chris Rodda (144 comments)
Catholic Right Leader Unapologetic about Call for 'Death to Liberal Professors' -- UPDATED
Today, Donald Trump appointed C-FAM Executive Vice President Lisa Correnti to the US Delegation To UN Commission On Status Of Women. (C-FAM is a......
By Frederick Clarkson (126 comments)
Controlling Information
     Yesterday I listened to Russ Limbaugh.  Rush advised listeners it would be best that they not listen to CNN,MSNBC, ABC, CBS and......
By wilkyjr (118 comments)
Is Bannon Fifth-Columning the Pope?
In December 2016 I wrote about how White House chief strategist Steve Bannon, who likes to flash his Catholic credentials when it comes to......
By Frank Cocozzelli (250 comments)
Ross Douthat's Hackery on the Seemingly Incongruous Alliance of Bannon & Burke
Conservative Catholic writer Ross Douthat has dissembled again. This time, in a February 15, 2017 New York Times op-ed titled The Trump Era's Catholic......
By Frank Cocozzelli (64 comments)
`So-Called Patriots' Attack The Rule Of Law
Every so often, right-wing commentator Pat Buchanan lurches out of the far-right fever swamp where he has resided for the past 50 years to......
By Rob Boston (161 comments)
Bad Faith from Focus on the Family
Here is one from the archives, Feb 12, 2011, that serves as a reminder of how deeply disingenuous people can be. Appeals to seek......
By Frederick Clarkson (176 comments)
The Legacy of George Wallace
"One need not accept any of those views to agree that they had appealed to real concerns of real people, not to mindless, unreasoning......
By wilkyjr (70 comments)
Betsy DeVos's Mudsill View of Public Education
My Talk to Action colleague Rachel Tabachnick has been doing yeoman's work in explaining Betsy DeVos's long-term strategy for decimating universal public education. If......
By Frank Cocozzelli (80 comments)
Prince and DeVos Families at Intersection of Radical Free Market Privatizers and Religious Right
This post from 2011 surfaces important information about President-Elect Trump's nominee for Secretary of Education, Betsy DeVos. -- FC Erik Prince, Brother of Betsy......
By Rachel Tabachnick (218 comments)

Respect for Others? or Political Correctness?
The term "political correctness" as used by Conservatives and Republicans has often puzzled me: what exactly do they mean by it? After reading Chip Berlin's piece here-- http://www.talk2action.org/story/2016/7/21/04356/9417 I thought about what he explained......
MTOLincoln (253 comments)
Fear
What I'm feeling now is fear.  I swear that it seems my nightmares are coming true with this new "president".  I'm also frustrated because so many people are not connecting all the dots! I've......
ArchaeoBob (107 comments)
"America - love it or LEAVE!"
I've been hearing that and similar sentiments fairly frequently in the last few days - far FAR more often than ever before.  Hearing about "consequences for burning the flag (actions) from Trump is chilling!......
ArchaeoBob (211 comments)
"Faked!" Meme
Keep your eyes and ears open for a possible move to try to discredit the people openly opposing Trump and the bigots, especially people who have experienced terrorism from the "Right"  (Christian Terrorism is......
ArchaeoBob (165 comments)
More aggressive proselytizing
My wife told me today of an experience she had this last week, where she was proselytized by a McDonald's employee while in the store. ......
ArchaeoBob (163 comments)
See if you recognize names on this list
This comes from the local newspaper, which was conservative before and took a hard right turn after it was sold. Hint: Sarah Palin's name is on it!  (It's also connected to Trump.) ......
ArchaeoBob (169 comments)
Unions: A Labor Day Discussion
This is a revision of an article which I posted on my personal board and also on Dailykos. I had an interesting discussion on a discussion board concerning Unions. I tried to piece it......
Xulon (156 comments)
Extremely obnoxious protesters at WitchsFest NYC: connected to NAR?
In July of this year, some extremely loud, obnoxious Christian-identified protesters showed up at WitchsFest, an annual Pagan street fair here in NYC.  Here's an account of the protest by Pagan writer Heather Greene......
Diane Vera (130 comments)
Capitalism and the Attack on the Imago Dei
I joined this site today, having been linked here by Crooksandliars' Blog Roundup. I thought I'd put up something I put up previously on my Wordpress blog and also at the DailyKos. As will......
Xulon (330 comments)
History of attitudes towards poverty and the churches.
Jesus is said to have stated that "The Poor will always be with you" and some Christians have used that to refuse to try to help the poor, because "they will always be with......
ArchaeoBob (148 comments)
Alternate economy medical treatment
Dogemperor wrote several times about the alternate economy structure that dominionists have built.  Well, it's actually made the news.  Pretty good article, although it doesn't get into how bad people could be (have been)......
ArchaeoBob (90 comments)
Evidence violence is more common than believed
Think I've been making things up about experiencing Christian Terrorism or exaggerating, or that it was an isolated incident?  I suggest you read this article (linked below in body), which is about our great......
ArchaeoBob (214 comments)

More Diaries...




All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments, posts, stories, and all other content are owned by the authors. Everything else © 2005 Talk to Action, LLC.