Donate to or support
Talk to Action








The Indian River Incident : What You Can Do

link > The "Stop the ACLU Coalition" Shaming Project
How you can help stop "Stop The ACLU" just by sending a few emails



 'Left Behind' video game imageThe Shaming Project

does the violence of "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" bother you ? If so, what can you do ? Well, to begin with you can email Jonathan Hutson's stories to people you know. That will help to bring more public scrutiny of the game. Public shaming really works ! Just click on the "email" icon and link at the top or bottom of the story and you'll be taken to a form that will allow you email the first story, The Purpose Driven Life Takers or the latest installment without leaving this site. Thanks. 'Left Behind' video game image




Separation of Church and State? Sez Who? Take the Quiz!
By Frederick Clarkson Tue Jan 16, 2007 at 12:12:12 AM EST printable version print story
Last summer, in the wake of Senator Barack Obama's speech regarding the role of religion in public life, I wrote several essays pointing out that Senator Obama and Jim Wallis' author of God's Politics, had internalized and expressed one of the central frames of the religious right, namely that  "secularists" or a number of variants (secular humanists, secular fundamentalists, etc) were somehow oppressing Christians (or religion, or people of faith, etc), or driving religious people "out of the public square."   They offered no evidence for this. It was, and is, a false and unsubstantiated frame featured by the religious right for a generation.

Now comes Democratic political consultant Mara Vanderslice who told The New York Times recently (as Talk to Action readers know) that Democrats should not use the phrase separation of church and state because it is not in the Constitution and because "That language says to people that you don't want there to be a role for religion in our public life"  I wrote that this argument is very close to, even indistinguishable from the argument advanced by the religious right.

Meanwhile, to underscore how fuzzy this area can get as religious right talking points bleed into the Conventional Wisdom, on the flip-- you'll find a news and public affairs quiz!  


Below, you'll find twenty quotes from Americans active in public life at various levels, taken from the pool of names, also listed below. (Hint: There is not a quote from every person in the pool..)  Each answer is worth 5 points. Answers (plus a bonus question!) are provided in comments.  Good Luck!  Have fun!

Sen. Sam Brownback - R-KS
George W. Bush - whatever
Sen.  Robert Byrd -  D-WV
Sen. Bob Casey - D-PA
James Dobson - head of Focus on the Family
Jerry Falwell - founder Moral Majority
Joseph Farrah - founder World Net Daily (a religious right news outlet
Katherine Harris - former GOP Florida Secretary of State
Sen. James Inhofe - R-OK
D. James Kennedy - Televangelist, Coral Ridge Ministries
Gordon Liddy - Watergate felon and radio talk show host
Tim LaHaye - co-founder, Moral Majority
Sen. Joe Leiberman - (Leiberman-CT)
David Limbaugh - religious right author; brother of Rush
Mike McCurry - White House Press Sectretary, Clinton administration
Roy Moore - Ex Chief Justice, Alabama Sumpreme Court
Eric Sapp - Sr. Partner, Common Good Strategies
Francis Schaeffer - conservative evangelical author and theorist
Jim Towey - Director White House Office of Faith Based Initiative
Mara Vanderslice - President, Commn Good Strategies
Jim Wallis - progresive evangelical author of God's Politics

TAKE THE QUIZ!

1) The Left is dominated by secular humanists who do not believe in God and have advocated for a misinterpretation of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution's prohibition against the establishment of religion by the federal government as a "wall separating church and state." No where in the Constitution is there any mention of a wall separating church and state.
 1) Gordon Liddy, Jim Wallis, Eric Sapp, Jerry Falwell

2) Separation of church and state has long been the battle cry of civil libertarians wishing to purge our glorious Christian heritage from our nation's history. Of course, the term never once appears in our constitution and is a modern fabrication of discrimination.
 2) Jerry Falwell,  Eric Sapp,  Mike McCurry, D. James Kennedy

3)  ...we have to have elected officials in government and we have to have the faithful in government and over time, that lie we have been told, the separation of church and state, people have internalized, thinking that they needed to avoid politics and that is so wrong because God is the one who chooses our rulers. And if we are the ones not actively involved in electing those godly men and women and if people aren't involved in helping godly men in getting elected than we're going to have a nation of secular laws. That's not what our founding fathers intended and that's certainly isn't what God intended.
 3) George Bush, Katherine Harris, Joe Leiberman, Jim Wallis

4) Because of the near worship of the "separation of church and state" - the shadowy phrase culled from a letter written by President Thomas Jefferson to a group of Baptists - our nation is racing headlong toward existence in a Godless public square.
 4) George Bush, Jerry Falwell, Joe Leiberman, Mara Vanderslice

5) The line between church and state is an important one," ...[ but] "we have gone far beyond what the Framers ever imagined in separating the two. . . . We have practically banished religious values and religious institutions from the public square.
  5) George Bush, Joe Leiberman, Jerry Falwell, Francis Schaefer

6) I believe in a separation of church and state, but I do not believe in a removal of faith from the public square," he told the prisoners. "Our motto of our land is, 'In God We Trust."'
 6) Sam Brownback, George Bush, Robert Byrd, Bob Casey

7) The activists from the American Civil Liberties Union, Americans United for Separation of Church and State and other extremist groups are - consciously or unconsciously - driving people of faith from the public square.
  7) Joseph Farrah, Tim LaHaye, Eric Sapp, Jim Wallis

8) We get trapped very often saying that there's separation of church and state in America. There is, but there was no separation of faith and politics in the very founders who wrote it in the Constitution.
 8) George Bush, Bob Casey, Mike McCurry, James Towey

9) In modern law... many use "separation of church and state" with the intent to separate God, moral values and Christian principles from the state. It means none of that... The way people use 'separation of church and state' is not historically or legally accurate. What it does mean is that the state can't interfere with the church and can't interfere with our mode of worship and our articles of faith. And that's what 'separation of church and state' means.
  9) George Bush, Jerry Falwell, Roy Moore, Eric Sapp

10)I don't think the sky is falling or we've lost all our religious freedom--but I think Christians are being scrubbed away from the public square, Christian religious liberty is being suppressed, and Christians are being impugned by people for whom tolerance is the highest virtue.... People will suppress our religious liberty under the separation of church and state language, while they promote the concept of the state endorsing secular humanist values or those of other major religions. They demand tolerance from everyone, but they are willing to give none toward Christians.
 10) David Limbaugh, Jim Wallis, Eric Sapp, Jerry Falwell

11) Rather than "separation of church and state," our Constitution has an "Establishment and Free Exercise Clause," and that's the language Democrats should use to describe the legal principles that define the interaction of church and state in this country.

Our Constitution guarantees everyone a right to freely exercise their religion and forbids the state from establishing a single religion. On the other hand, the "separation" language used by many Democrats implies the complete exclusion of faith from the public square, thereby creating restrictions on the free exercise of religion.

  11) George Bush, James Inhofe, Roy Moore, Eric Sapp

12) Everyone today seems to think the U.S. Constitution expressly provides for separation of church and state. I guess you could ask any 10 people if that is not so and I will bet you most of them will say, well, sure that is so. And some would point out that is in the First Amendment. Wrong. Read it. It says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Where is the word ``separate''? Where are the words ``church'' and ``state''? They are not there; never have been, never intended to be.... Clearly their intent was to prohibit a single denomination in exclusion of all others, whether it was anglican or Catholic or some other.

 12) James Inhofe, Mike McCurry, Eric Sapp, Mara Vanderslice

13) In case anyone doesn't know, "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution. It shouldn't be in our vocabulary as Democrats either.... it is often misused by secularists to attack any use of faith in the public sphere.... Our Constitution guarantees everyone a right to freely exercise their religion and forbids the state from establishing a single religion. On the other hand, the "separation" language used by many Democrats implies the complete exclusion of faith from the public square, thereby creating restrictions on the free exercise of religion.
 13) Bob Casey, Mike McCurry, Joe Leiberman, Eric Sapp

14)The separation of church and state is not in the Constitution.... It's not in the Bill of Rights. It's not anywhere in a foundational document. The only place where the so-called "wall of separation" was mentioned was in a letter written by (Thomas) Jefferson to a friend. That's the only place. It has been picked up and made to be something it was never intended to be.
 14) George Bush, James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, Gordon Liddy

15)The truth is, there is no 'wall of separation' in the Constitution, unless it is a wall intended by the Founding Fathers to keep the civil government totally out of the church.
 15) Robert Byrd, Tim LaHaye, Francis Schaefer, Mara Vanderslice

16) The words 'separation of church and state' are not found in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence or the Articles of Confederation or any document of our history... The First Amendment to our Constitution basically embodies a concept of separation -- meaning that the state should stay out of the affairs of the church and of the relationship that men have with their God.
 16) Bob Casey, D. James Kennedy, Roy Moore, Mara Vanderslice  

17) Today, there are new fundamentalists in the land.  These are the "secular fundamentalists," many of whom attack all political figures who dare to speak from their religious convictions. From the Anti-Defamation League, to Americans United for Separation of Church and State, to the ACLU and some of the political Left's most religion fearing publications, a cry of alarm has gone up in response to anyone who has the audacity to be religious in public. These secular skeptics often display amazing lapse of historical memory when they suggest that religious language in politics is contrary to the "American Ideal."
 17) James Dobson, James Inhofe, Mara Vanderslice, Jim Wallis

18) Today the separation of church and state in America is used to silence the church. When Christians speak out on issues, the hue and cry from the humanist state and media is that Christians, and all religions, are prohibited from speaking since there is a separation of church and state. The way the concept is used today is totally reversed from the original intent...
 18) Katherine Harris, Francis Schaeffer, Mara Vanderslice, Jim Wallis

19) If we are committed and involved in taking back the nation for Christian moral values, and if we are willing to risk the scorn of the secular media and the bureaucracy that stand against us, there is no doubt we can witness the dismantling of not just the Berlin Wall but the even more diabolical 'wall of separation' that has led to increasing secularization, godlessness, immorality, and corruption in our country.
  19) Robert Byrd, D. James Kennedy, Gordon Liddy, Jim Wallis

20) President Bush does not want to proselytize or fund religion. We're talking about things like job training and substance abuse prevention, and opening up to small groups that have been shut [out] by the ACLU and a radical fringe that wants an extreme separation of church and state.
  20) James Inhofe, Joe Leiberman, Jim Towey, Jim Wallis



Display:
Those who would renegotiate the boundaries between church and state must therefore answer a difficult question: why would we trade a system that has served us so well for one that has served others so poorly?

Thomas Jefferson
Jimmy Carter
Gerald Ford
Sandra Day O'Connor


by Frederick Clarkson on Tue Jan 16, 2007 at 12:25:58 AM EST




WWW Talk To Action


I'll Die Another Day
As many of you know, I am now recovering at home after two weeks in the hospital and some harrowing experiences. I am feeling......
By Frederick Clarkson (2 comments)
What Palin's "Jewish people will be flocking to Israel" statement really means
Stumping for her new autobiography, Sarah Palin has made a round of interviews with high profile media figures such as Oprah Winfrey and Barbara......
By Bruce Wilson (3 comments)
Render Unto Caesar: District Tax Officials End Free Ride For Religious Right's `C Street House'
Remember all the talk last summer about the mysterious "C Street house" in Washington, D.C.? The structure, owned by a clandestine evangelical Christian organization......
By Rob Boston (0 comments)
The Africa Connection to the Attack on the Mainline Churches
Three years ago, in an essay in The Public Eye magazine, I outlined how the neoconservative and Religious Right campaign to divide and conquer......
By Frederick Clarkson (2 comments)
Prevaricating Pastors: Mendacious Ministers Prove It's Still Legal To Be Bigots
It's no secret that I'm not a fan of the Religious Right. Through my work at Americans United, I've opposed this movement for 22......
By Rob Boston (2 comments)
Palin's Prayer Leader Hinted Terrorist Attack Could Make Sarah President
In the final weeks of the 2008 presidential election, one of the religious leaders closest to Sarah Palin hinted that the Alaska governor might......
By Bruce Wilson (7 comments)
Hagee, Rodriguez Embrace Signals Massive New Alignments On Christian Right
As JTA News has just reported, John Hagee's Christians United For Israel (CUFI), which represents many millions of American Christian Zionist evangelicals, has formed......
By Bruce Wilson (2 comments)
Archbishop Dolan Disparages Reform and Dissent As "Anti-Catholicism"
In posting on his blog site, recently installed Archbishop for the Diocese of New York, Timothy Dolan, accused The New York Times of anti-Catholicism.......
By Frank Cocozzelli (5 comments)
Bart Stupak, Family 'Minister', Wrapped in C Street Like a Bug in a Rug
Even while protesting that he isn't trying to kill health care reform, House Representative Bart Stupak (D-Mich), who has incurred the wrath of the......
By Bruce Wilson (2 comments)
Unhealthy Trend: House Action On Abortion Showcases Power Of Bishops' Lobby
When political pundits talk about the power of religious groups to affect public policy in Washington, most tend to focus on the Religious Right.......
By Rob Boston (1 comment)
Author of Ugandan Anti-Homosexuality Bill and the "College of Prayer International"
The Uganda New Vision reports the latest on David Bahati, the MP behind the proposed draconian "Anti-Homosexuality Bill"; he was among attendees at a......
By Richard Bartholomew (3 comments)
Rick Warren Repudiates Martin Ssempa
From Warren Throckmorton's blog: STATEMENT FROM PASTOR RICK & KAY WARREN REGARDING ACTIVITIES OF MARTIN SSEMPA IN UGANDA Martin Ssempa does not represent me,......
By Richard Bartholomew (2 comments)
Dobson And Destiny: Will Religious Right Leader Turn His Focus To Electioneering?
James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family (FOF), is not a happy camper these days.  "What is happening in Washington right now is......
By Rob Boston (5 comments)
Resource Page on John Hagee and Christian Zionism
Special Focus:  Christian Zionism Following are a list of articles on Christian Zionism that have been posted on Talk2action.org over a period of several......
By Bruce Wilson (1 comment)
Progressive Catholics in Maine Push Back on Question One
On Tuesday November 3rd, voters in Maine can either vote yes or no on "Question One," a potential people's veto of recently enacted legislation......
By Frank Cocozzelli (7 comments)

Mark Silk on the Hagee / Rodriguez Entente
Mark Silk, at Spiritual Politics has picked up on my notice of the Hagee-Rodriguez embrace and zeroes in on what's certainly one of the most notable aspects: "The key thing to understand about the......
By Bruce Wilson (1 comment)
Inscribing Christian Values in our Children Before Birth?
Following the evolution of evangelical discourse as it re-defines homosexuality as evidence of "fallen creation", Terri Murray looks at how the Christian right have shifted their rhetoric to adapt to empirical research showing that......
By TMurray (0 comments)
US News & World Report Showcases Creationist Ray Comfort
US News and World Report's Dan Gilgoff has charitably provided evangelist Ray Comfort a media platform in the form of a US News & World "exclusive" through which Comfort defends his efforts to distribute,......
By Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
Atheist billboard in Central Florida
The organization "Atheists of Florida" sponsored a billboard promoting atheism in Lakeland, Florida.  I, however, have some concerns. ......
By ArchaeoBob (1 comment)
Transcript: Billy Graham and Richard Nixon, February 21, 1973
The following is my own transcript of a 20 minute phone conversation between Richard Nixon and Billy Graham, on February 23, 1973. As far as I am aware this is the only publicly available,......
By Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
Rifqa Bary being sent back to Ohio now
Well, there's a change in this case.  After the judge gets immigration documents and so on from the parents, he will send her back. ......
By ArchaeoBob (0 comments)
The War on The War on Christmas Goes To Pot
The first day of Fall could be considered the official launch date for the annual war on the war on Christmas, which represents a significant part of the the American Family Association business model......
By Bruce Wilson (1 comment)
School Officials off the hook
Today it is reported that the judge excused the school officials who violated the agreement they had over separation of Church and State. ......
By ArchaeoBob (0 comments)
Dominionists trying to outlaw birth control
Well, they're at it again in Florida. ......
By ArchaeoBob (2 comments)
No Danger for Rifqa Bary
The FDLE just completed an investigation and found "no credible reports of threats" against Rifqa Bary. ......
By ArchaeoBob (1 comment)
Truth hitting the mainstream!
I've despaired of ever seeing anything critical or exposing Dominionism hit the mainstream press.  There is now an exception. ......
By ArchaeoBob (0 comments)
Extremism?
The term extremism is currently in vogue to describe hate groups and other malcontents listed as such by knowledgeable monitors like SPLC and others in the T2A sidebar, but while we all know what......
By Jay Taber (2 comments)
My Netroots Nation Panel Talk
Where Do We Stand in the Bright Light of History? Netroots Nation August 14, 2009 Thank You, Professor Ledewitz, for initiating this discussion of a progressive vision for church and state -- and Netroots......
By Frederick Clarkson (0 comments)
Transcript, Jan. 18, 2009 Steven Anderson Sermon Excerpt
Note: the sermon excerpt video and transcript below, from a January 18, 2009 sermon by pastor Steven Anderson of the Tempe, Arizona Independent Baptist Church, begins at approximately 21:30 into Anderson's  one hour, four......
By Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
More anti-Muslim provocation
The local paper reports that students in Gainsville, Florida are wearing T-shirts with "ISLAM IS OF THE DEVIL" printed on them. ......
By ArchaeoBob (1 comment)
Rifqa Bary to stay in Florida
The young ex-Muslim girl who ran away from her parents will be allowed to stay in Florida.  The news article has strong indications that this is purely political. ......
By ArchaeoBob (10 comments)
Framing Fascism
In her recent article, Sara Robinson argues the United States is well on its way to becoming a totalitarian, fascist state. As evidence of this inevitability, she cites current town hall disruptions and threats......
By Jay Taber (11 comments)
Rock Paper Scissors
GOP-sponsored vigilantism has happened before. It is an integral part of domestic terrorism aimed at ethnic minorities and other sub-populations targeted by White Nationalism and Christian Fundamentalism. Catholics, Jews, Blacks, and Native Americans have......
By Jay Taber (3 comments)
PA Shooter's Church taught: "You can commit mass murder, then still go to heaven"
George Sodini, the 48-year-old misogynist who shot up a Pennsylvania Gym full of women on Aug. 4th, killing three women before turning the gun on himself, believed God wouldn't judge him by his actions.......
By Stacey Tallitsch (0 comments)
Vatican grilling Catholic sisters
While I am not Catholic, I accidentally ran across this article which is of interest to us on this blog - it involves Vatican actions that concern attempts at political control... ......
By ArchaeoBob (3 comments)
Sect Controls Women's Destinies
by Carolyn Jessop and Laura Palmer On The Issues Magazine Had I not escaped one night five years ago with my eight children from the manipulation and control of the FLDS (Fundamentalist Church of......
By On The Issues Magazine (4 comments)
The Religion of Fear
<h2> Living on Guard</h2> In The Religion of Fear, Jason C. Bivins examines conservative evangelical culture as it intersects with America's love affair with spectacular violence and the popular culture of fright that has......
By Jay Taber (2 comments)
Monvee: Profiles of the Mega-churched.
[ed: updated from diary section] Over the last 20 years, a consolidation from the small protestant church has given way to the "Mega-church" where community fellowship goes to die, and prosperity-gospel-rock-concerts are born. Just......
By Stacey Tallitsch (12 comments)
Woman Shoots ex-Husband in Groin, To "Let The Demons Out"
An investigating detective read an entry from a three ring binder, written shortly before the crime: "I know now what I have to do. There are three demonic spirits in (Dr. Loher), one assigned......
By Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
Separation of Church and State attacked in Florida
A Central Florida organization, "The Community Issues Council" has funded a number of billboards attacking the separation of Church and State, using "Quotes" from some of the Founding Fathers. ......
By ArchaeoBob (5 comments)
Radio host: We're only united through Christianity
Most of you in Indiana may know about Peter Heck, who hosts a daily radio show in Kokomo and puts out a column that appears in several newspapers across the state and in OneNewsNow.......
By Christian Dem in NC (2 comments)
Cindy Jacobs--the new leader of the NAR
You may remember that Lou Engle has made moves of late to position himself as the new power in the religious right.  He's a member of the Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders, a group......
By Christian Dem in NC (3 comments)
James F. Linzey Espouses anti-Semitic, White Racialist Conspiracy Theory
James F. Linzey is a prominent, active duty chaplain in the United States military. Linzey has stated that he was the command chaplain for the Operation Iraqi Freedom troop mobilization prior to the US......
By Bruce Wilson (4 comments)
White Supremacist named as Holocaust Museum Shooter
An 89 year old, vehemently antiSemitic  Ron Paul supporter has been named by police as the gunman who opened fire in the Holocaust Museum shortly after noon today: Gunman, guard shot at Holocaust museum......
By CynthiaGee (0 comments)
From Focus On The Family to La Familia Michoacana
I didn't think my work on the religous right would converge with what I'm doing on the narcoguerra in Mexico...but here it is: the Faith-Based Cartel. ......
By julydogs (2 comments)

More Diaries...


Donate to or support
Talk to Action

Left Behind: Eternal Forces: Installments of Jonathan Hutson's Talk To Action expose series on the "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" video game have been viewed by up to 1/2 million people. See our site section featuring Over 35 original articles covering the controversial "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" video game that has provoked a boycott by a coalition of religious groups and a letter writing campaign urging Walmart to stop selling the game. Media inquiries click here
(image: detail from Francoise Dubois' rendition of the Bartholomew's Day Massacre reveals the actual nature of religious warfare)