Is America a Christian Nation?
Carlos printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 01:15:20 PM EST
According to John Fea, writing for the History News Network, both the left and the right often answer this question the wrong way. An excerpt:
Those who insist that America was founded as a Christian nation run roughshod over the historical record. They use the words of the Founding Fathers to support Republican jeremiads on the moral decay of American life. If only this country could return to its Christian roots, they say nostalgically, everything would be okay.

And how do they demonstrate that America was founded as a Christian nation? By selectively choosing texts from the writings of the Founders without any effort to explore them in the context of the 18th-century world in which they were written. Just because John Adams and George Washington quoted from the Bible or made reference to God does not mean that they were trying to construct a Christian nation. Granted, the Founding Fathers were the products of a Christian culture, but most of them were never comfortable with the beliefs that defined this culture. Very few of them would qualify for membership in today's evangelical churches. [   ]

But before we go too far in condemning the Christian Right on this front, let's remember that the secular left is not immune to errors of historical thinking. While evangelicals misinterpret the references to God in the words of the Founding Fathers, their critics simply have no idea what to make of those same quotations. Since they can't fathom why people today would make religious faith an essential part of their everyday lives, they have little interest in making sense of past worlds where such beliefs were important.

Such approaches to history seldom enable us to better understand the past. Thinking historically does not mean that people cannot learn from the past -- they should and must. But they should be careful how they use historical examples. Exploring the past requires a concern for what it was really like.




Display:
Mr. Fea, like so many others falls into the same old trap of false equivalence between the religious right and the strawman of the "secular left."

The reason that we discuss the matter of historical revisionism is because the religious right has made it a problem.

While I am glad that he is on the case of the revisionism presented by the religious right, Fea presents no evidence that "the secular left" (whatever that is), has misapplied, misstated, misquoted, misunderstood or fabricated history.

If he has a correction or criticism to make of someone he should make it -- and avoid the profound intellectual error of making vast, unsupported generalizations about "the secular left" -- as if whatever errors made by critics of the religious right are of similar magnitude and consequence.

by Frederick Clarkson on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 02:14:10 PM EST

that Fea is overstating his case and engaging in some unfair equivalence, but he still makes a good general point about the temptation of secular types to not fully understand, be interested in, or be sensitive to our Christian historical context and its consequences up to the present time.

by Carlos on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 02:32:15 PM EST
Parent
Once again, absent any actual facts about said temptations by alleged secular types, I'll withhold any judgement about whether he has any point at all.

We do get rather mixed up because of the use of the word "secular."  What does it mean? It depends on who is using (or abusing) the term and in what context.

To some, it means atheism or generic non belief such as in "I am a secular Jew."  (To others it means militant "new atheism".)

In other instances, it simply means support for neutrality in government with regards to religion.

In still other cases, it is synonymos with pluralism, meaning that a secular society which respects all religious points of view and prefers none.

I could go on.

But let's set aside the matter of secular types for a moment. Why pick on them? How about various religious factions involved in say, middle east politics, who abuse history for political purposes or confuse it for ideological reasons?

The point is that any time one sets up the secular strawman, absent any real facts, one is falling into the same old false framing that the religous right has used for decades.

There are plenty of real world misuses and misstatements of history without resorting to the great, unnamed secular anything.

Awhile back we had Wallis, Obama and others making vast claims about secularists driving people of faith from "the public square" or from the Democratic Party.  They have yet to name a single person who has ever been silenced or barred from public life because of their religous views or expressions. They have yet to name a single secularist or identified any secular movement that has behaved in this fashion. After having been vigorously challenged, we don't hear that embarrassing claim much anymore outside the religious right.

As for Fea, lets see him define "the secular left," by some reasonable standard, and name some specific incidents so we can understand and evaluate his claims. I have no idea what he is referring to, and I suspect, neither does he.

by Frederick Clarkson on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 03:09:44 PM EST
Parent




...by debating what was in the Founders' minds regarding religion.  It's certainly critical to correct falsification of history, and Jefferson's views aren't irrelevant -- but I think it's much more important to focus on the pragmatic, specific implications of considering the US to be a "Christian Nation".

For example: should a teacher in a public school be allowed to lead a prayer in the classroom?  If you clearly answer "no" to questions like these, I don't really care whether or not you think we're a Christian Nation.  If you answer "yes", then I want to be sure I don't vote for you.

Prayer in school isn't the only implication, but it's in some sense canonical.  It might be interesting to come up with 10 such questions to serve as something of a "Dominionist Litmus Test".  I chose the number 10 completely at random, of course.

Let's try to force the discussion to its relevant impact on our lives and society -- this will make the debate less ideological and more actionable.

by dhr on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 11:10:28 PM EST




WWW Talk To Action


Cognitive Dissonance & Dominionism Denial
There is new research on why people are averse to hearing or learning about the views of ideological opponents. Based on evaluation of five......
By Frederick Clarkson (374 comments)
Will the Air Force Do Anything To Rein In Its Dynamic Duo of Gay-Bashing, Misogynistic Bloggers?
"I always get nervous when I see female pastors/chaplains. Here is why everyone should as well: "First, women are not called to be pastors,......
By Chris Rodda (195 comments)
The Legacy of Big Oil
The media is ablaze with the upcoming publication of David Grann's book, Killers of the Flower Moon. The shocking non fiction account of the......
By wilkyjr (110 comments)
Gimme That Old Time Dominionism Denial
Over the years, I have written a great deal here and in other venues about the explicitly theocratic movement called dominionism -- which has......
By Frederick Clarkson (101 comments)
History Advisor to Members of Congress Completely Twists Jefferson's Words to Support Muslim Ban
Pseudo-historian David Barton, best known for his misquoting of our country's founders to promote the notion that America was founded as a Christian nation,......
By Chris Rodda (113 comments)
"Christian Fighter Pilot" Calls First Lesbian Air Force Academy Commandant a Liar
In a new post on his "Christian Fighter Pilot" blog titled "BGen Kristin Goodwin and the USAFA Honor Code," Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan......
By Chris Rodda (144 comments)
Catholic Right Leader Unapologetic about Call for 'Death to Liberal Professors' -- UPDATED
Today, Donald Trump appointed C-FAM Executive Vice President Lisa Correnti to the US Delegation To UN Commission On Status Of Women. (C-FAM is a......
By Frederick Clarkson (126 comments)
Controlling Information
     Yesterday I listened to Russ Limbaugh.  Rush advised listeners it would be best that they not listen to CNN,MSNBC, ABC, CBS and......
By wilkyjr (118 comments)
Is Bannon Fifth-Columning the Pope?
In December 2016 I wrote about how White House chief strategist Steve Bannon, who likes to flash his Catholic credentials when it comes to......
By Frank Cocozzelli (250 comments)
Ross Douthat's Hackery on the Seemingly Incongruous Alliance of Bannon & Burke
Conservative Catholic writer Ross Douthat has dissembled again. This time, in a February 15, 2017 New York Times op-ed titled The Trump Era's Catholic......
By Frank Cocozzelli (64 comments)
`So-Called Patriots' Attack The Rule Of Law
Every so often, right-wing commentator Pat Buchanan lurches out of the far-right fever swamp where he has resided for the past 50 years to......
By Rob Boston (161 comments)
Bad Faith from Focus on the Family
Here is one from the archives, Feb 12, 2011, that serves as a reminder of how deeply disingenuous people can be. Appeals to seek......
By Frederick Clarkson (176 comments)
The Legacy of George Wallace
"One need not accept any of those views to agree that they had appealed to real concerns of real people, not to mindless, unreasoning......
By wilkyjr (70 comments)
Betsy DeVos's Mudsill View of Public Education
My Talk to Action colleague Rachel Tabachnick has been doing yeoman's work in explaining Betsy DeVos's long-term strategy for decimating universal public education. If......
By Frank Cocozzelli (80 comments)
Prince and DeVos Families at Intersection of Radical Free Market Privatizers and Religious Right
This post from 2011 surfaces important information about President-Elect Trump's nominee for Secretary of Education, Betsy DeVos. -- FC Erik Prince, Brother of Betsy......
By Rachel Tabachnick (218 comments)

Respect for Others? or Political Correctness?
The term "political correctness" as used by Conservatives and Republicans has often puzzled me: what exactly do they mean by it? After reading Chip Berlin's piece here-- http://www.talk2action.org/story/2016/7/21/04356/9417 I thought about what he explained......
MTOLincoln (253 comments)
Fear
What I'm feeling now is fear.  I swear that it seems my nightmares are coming true with this new "president".  I'm also frustrated because so many people are not connecting all the dots! I've......
ArchaeoBob (107 comments)
"America - love it or LEAVE!"
I've been hearing that and similar sentiments fairly frequently in the last few days - far FAR more often than ever before.  Hearing about "consequences for burning the flag (actions) from Trump is chilling!......
ArchaeoBob (211 comments)
"Faked!" Meme
Keep your eyes and ears open for a possible move to try to discredit the people openly opposing Trump and the bigots, especially people who have experienced terrorism from the "Right"  (Christian Terrorism is......
ArchaeoBob (165 comments)
More aggressive proselytizing
My wife told me today of an experience she had this last week, where she was proselytized by a McDonald's employee while in the store. ......
ArchaeoBob (163 comments)
See if you recognize names on this list
This comes from the local newspaper, which was conservative before and took a hard right turn after it was sold. Hint: Sarah Palin's name is on it!  (It's also connected to Trump.) ......
ArchaeoBob (169 comments)
Unions: A Labor Day Discussion
This is a revision of an article which I posted on my personal board and also on Dailykos. I had an interesting discussion on a discussion board concerning Unions. I tried to piece it......
Xulon (156 comments)
Extremely obnoxious protesters at WitchsFest NYC: connected to NAR?
In July of this year, some extremely loud, obnoxious Christian-identified protesters showed up at WitchsFest, an annual Pagan street fair here in NYC.  Here's an account of the protest by Pagan writer Heather Greene......
Diane Vera (130 comments)
Capitalism and the Attack on the Imago Dei
I joined this site today, having been linked here by Crooksandliars' Blog Roundup. I thought I'd put up something I put up previously on my Wordpress blog and also at the DailyKos. As will......
Xulon (330 comments)
History of attitudes towards poverty and the churches.
Jesus is said to have stated that "The Poor will always be with you" and some Christians have used that to refuse to try to help the poor, because "they will always be with......
ArchaeoBob (148 comments)
Alternate economy medical treatment
Dogemperor wrote several times about the alternate economy structure that dominionists have built.  Well, it's actually made the news.  Pretty good article, although it doesn't get into how bad people could be (have been)......
ArchaeoBob (90 comments)
Evidence violence is more common than believed
Think I've been making things up about experiencing Christian Terrorism or exaggerating, or that it was an isolated incident?  I suggest you read this article (linked below in body), which is about our great......
ArchaeoBob (214 comments)

More Diaries...




All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments, posts, stories, and all other content are owned by the authors. Everything else © 2005 Talk to Action, LLC.