Donate to or support
Talk to Action








The Indian River Incident : What You Can Do

link > The "Stop the ACLU Coalition" Shaming Project
How you can help stop "Stop The ACLU" just by sending a few emails



 'Left Behind' video game imageThe Shaming Project

does the violence of "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" bother you ? If so, what can you do ? Well, to begin with you can email Jonathan Hutson's stories to people you know. That will help to bring more public scrutiny of the game. Public shaming really works ! Just click on the "email" icon and link at the top or bottom of the story and you'll be taken to a form that will allow you email the first story, The Purpose Driven Life Takers or the latest installment without leaving this site. Thanks. 'Left Behind' video game image




US Senate Opens With Hindu Prayer, Confuses David Barton [UPDATED]
By DonByrd Thu Jul 12, 2007 at 02:40:23 AM EST printable version print story
This morning, the United States Senate opened with a prayer by a Hindu chaplain, for the first time in our nation's history. Rajan Sed, an American citizen and Nevada resident prayed to "the supreme one" for "peace" and "enlightenment." You will be shocked to find out that some Christian conservatives are unhappy with this development. Chief among the complainers has been our favorite dubious historian, David Barton. Read on...
topic: Church/State Separation
The American Family Network (the press arm of Donald Wildmon's AFA) has taken the lead in denouncing the prayer, with news headlines like "Senate Prayer: Starting Countdown to Judgment," a suggestion that this "watershed" event just may be prove to be God's tipping point...(please document all witnessed signs of the apocalypse in comments below). Yesterday's story highlighted "historian Barton's" misgivings:
WallBuilders president David Barton is questioning why the U.S. government is seeking the invocation of a non-monotheistic god. Barton points out that since Hindus worship multiple gods, the prayer will be completely outside the American paradigm, flying in the face of the American motto "One Nation Under God."

"In Hindu, you have not one God, but many, many, many, many, many gods," the Christian historian explains. "And certainly that was never in the minds of those who did the Constitution, did the Declaration [of Independence] when they talked about Creator -- that's not one that fits here because we don't know which creator we're talking about within the Hindu religion."

Then, of course, he moves to an appeal to majority, as if our constitutional rights might be up for a vote:
Barton says given the fact that Hindus are a tiny constituency of the American public, he questions the motivation of Senate leaders.

And, finally when all else fails, he falls back on plain old derogatory assessments of the Hindu faith:
"This is not a religion that has produced great things in the world," he observes.

But of course, he covers his own backside by insisting there are no legal problems in opening a session with prayer...no, the problems here are more, well, personal:
[W]hile Barton acknowledges there is no constitutional problem with a Hindu prayer in the Senate, he wonders about the political side of it. "One definitely wonders about the pragmatic side of it," he says. "What is the message, and why is the message needed? And will it actually communicate anything other than engender with folks like me a lot of questions?"

So there you have it. Freedom for me, but not for thee. David wants our government to be rife with acts of free religious expression, just not so free as to put him outside his comfort zone, or leave him with "a lot of questions." No, indeed, what good is religion if we can't use it to remain comfortable and unquestioning?

In all honesty, apart from the chance to share a so-this-is-how-they-must-feel learning moment with my Christian brothers and sisters like Mr. Barton, I am not any more excited about opening the Senate of the United States with a Hindu prayer than I am a Christian prayer. That ceremonial prayers like this one have been found constitutional doesn't mean they are wise, from a religious perspective. There is, for sure, symbolic value in this reminder of our nation's religious diversity, but at the same time, prayers are deeply personal expressions, not roadshows. The necessary compromise of state involvement diminishes the integrity of faith.

Though the situation he describes is different, I'm reminded of a part of Randall Balmer's recent speech to a group of Baptists at the Religious Liberty Council Luncheon in Washington, D.C.:

I attended a meeting a few years back where a representative of the Religious Right in this town actually proposed that the way to maneuver around the Supreme Court was to have schoolchildren recite a Hindu prayer on Monday, a Jewish prayer on Tuesday, a Christian prayer on Wednesday, and so on. No real Baptist would stand for such tomfoolery, for Baptists, following the lead of Roger Williams, recognize the perils to the faith of too close an association with the state. I, for one, have no interest in having my daughter or my sons recite a Shintõ prayer at the beginning of each school day, much less a prayer written by Congress or by the state legislature or even by a local school board. Baptists, of all people, understand that making prayer rote and obligatory makes prayer into a mockery.
Read the whole speech.

[UPDATE: TPMCafe has video of the Senate prayer here, as well as more info on the Christian disrupters.]




Display:
Link
Three Christian protestors were removed from the U.S. Senate chamber's observation gallery Thursday when they disrupted the morning prayer -- being delivered for the first time in history by a Hindu chaplain.

The three unidentified protestors began praying loudly when Rajan Zed, a Hindu chaplain from Nevada, started praying. The demonstrators prayed for forgiveness from Jesus Christ for "betraying" the Christian tradition.

by DonByrd on Thu Jul 12, 2007 at 10:52:09 AM EST


http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/07/hindu_shouted_down_while_offer. php

The above link will take you to a thread at AFA regarding this.  According to them, The Hindu prayer was "shouted down".  I do find it interesting in the comments left at the AFA site, that some dare to espouse a liberal view.  However, that voice is almost lost in the vituperation of the others.  Sad.

by SFLady on Thu Jul 12, 2007 at 02:51:29 PM EST


...who tipped them off? Or is this something that is announced as part of a published schedule? Or, if, perhaps a Senator desired a confrontation...

by Naomi on Thu Jul 12, 2007 at 09:50:12 PM EST
No surprises there.

by Frederick Clarkson on Thu Jul 12, 2007 at 10:47:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]


The Chaplains' prayer could have come straight from the mouth of John Adams.

Where is to be found Theology more orthodox or Phylosophy more profound than in the Introduction to the Shast[r]a [a Hindu Treatise]? "God is one, creator of all, Universal Sphere, without beginning, without End. God Governs all the Creation by a General Providence, resulting from his eternal designs -- Search not the Essence and the nature of the Eternal, who is one; Your research will be vain and presumptuous. It is enough that, day by day, and night by night, You adore his Power, his Wisdom and Goodness, in his Works."

-- John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, December 25, 1813.


by Jonathan Rowe on Fri Jul 13, 2007 at 10:14:23 AM EST


This is going to bee the kind of story that divides people.  Either you are going to have a problem with the Senate's opening prayer being led by a Hindu (or any non-Judeo-Christian) or you're not.  

Personally I have absolutely no problem with the Senate having a Hindu lead the opening prayer, in fact I think this practice should be encourage and continued.  It would do Americans a world of good to be exposed to other religions and the Senate is as good a place as any to start.  

What will be interesting about this debate is to see which side evokes the idea of separation of church and state (something of which I am a firm believer in).  To me, having a Hindu lead the prayer is the embodiment of the idea of the separation of church and state.  By allowing a representative of any religion to lead the prayer, the government is not showing preference to any one religion because all are allowed to participate.  It's all or none; either we let all religions participate or we remove the prayer all together.  End of story.  


by oklahomalefty on Fri Jul 13, 2007 at 11:56:09 AM EST


Last evening KO gave the three "protesters" the bronze in his Worst Person in the World and incluided this comment:

"Mr. Christ has issued a statement apologizing and saying he never told anyone to be intolerant and certainly not to be rude."  

I love Keith Olbermann.

by SFLady on Fri Jul 13, 2007 at 01:30:40 PM EST


James Madison, in his "Detached Memoranda" offered his belief that the presence of chaplains in both Congress and the military was an obvious violation of the Establishment Clause. He said that it was something that he felt at the time was not worth fighting over, but that if it became an issue between sects, the practice should be discontinued. Well, it has become a problem several times over the years, and this Hindu issue caps it. The practice of having prayers and chaplains in government venues, including in the military should cease!

by LindaJoy on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 03:04:05 PM EST


WWW Talk To Action


The Fog is Lifting over Common Ground on Abortion
President Obama has made much about finding common ground on abortion, and Democratic oriented think tanks like Third Way and Faith in Public Life......
By Frederick Clarkson (0 comments)
Short Takes
Examiner.com:  A few years ago, Talk to Action exposed the convert or die ideology of the video game based on Tim LaHaye's Left Behind......
By Frederick Clarkson (6 comments)
Sally Kern, Unpatriot: Why Does Oklahoma's Looney Lawmaker Hate America?
Everyone's favorite raging theocrat, Oklahoma House member Sally Kern, is at it again. Numerous reports indicate that Kern and her supporters plan to publicly......
By Rob Boston (3 comments)
Camp David Chaplain: "First we get the military, then we get the nation"
For a few hours today it seemed, according to a new Time Magazine story by Amy Sullivan, released Monday morning, that US President Barack......
By Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
Obama's [Reported] New Pastor: "First we get the military, then we get the nation"
UPDATE: The White House has denied the report that Obama has chosen the chapel at Camp David as his church. This, however, does not......
By Chris Rodda (2 comments)
CBS's Go To (Rightwing) Catholic Guy
The go to guy at CBS News for all-things Catholic is one Father Thomas D. Williams.  Never heard of him?  Well, if you watch......
By Frank Cocozzelli (2 comments)
MRFF Demands DoD Revoke Authority of Chaplain Endorser Who Suggested Democrats Should Be Executed
As I wrote back in May, the antics of disgraced former Navy chaplain Gordon Klingenschmitt, and his retaliation against the Military Religious Freedom Foundation......
By Chris Rodda (4 comments)
Al Jazeera Special Report Covers Advance of Fundamentalism in US Military
A June 23, 2009 report from Al Jazeera (English) by Josh Rushing, "Fault Lines - Religion in the Military", expertly covers a topic the......
By Bruce Wilson (2 comments)
Ann Coulter Justifies The Tiller Assasination
Ann Coulter is skilled at saying what she really believes while building in a certain plausible deniability, and that is what she has repeatedly......
By Frederick Clarkson (5 comments)
More on the Pre-Netroots Nation Pie Fight
The other day, I reported about the pies launched in response to the description of one of the first sessions to be announced for......
By Frederick Clarkson (3 comments)
Ralph's Resurrection?: Former Christian Coalition Honcho Reed Seeks To Rise From The Crypt
Last month I wrote a story for Church & State speculating about possible new leaders for the Religious Right. I focused on Mike Huckabee,......
By Rob Boston (3 comments)
Liberty Learns A Lesson: Falwell School Accepts AU Advice On Political Clubs
Americans United for Separation of Church and State reacted quickly when word spread recently that officials at Liberty University had revoked university recognition of......
By Rob Boston (0 comments)
Defense Department-Certified Agency Newsletter Suggests Killing Democrats
"In 2008, Ammerman implied that four presidential candidates should be "arrested, quickly tried and hanged" for not voting to designate English America's official language,......
By Bruce Wilson (2 comments)
Col. Jim Ammerman, Apostle & New World Order Conspiracy Theorist
Part Two - Conspiracy as Prophecy New World Order Conspiracy is not disseminated by white supremacist groups alone. New World Order conspiracy is a......
By Ruth (2 comments)
Common Ground Sink Hole at RH Reality Check
There is an odd new section to the prochoice site, RH Reality Check devoted to discussion of common ground on abortion, and featuring some......
By Frederick Clarkson (3 comments)

Radio host: We're only united through Christianity
Most of you in Indiana may know about Peter Heck, who hosts a daily radio show in Kokomo and puts out a column that appears in several newspapers across the state and in OneNewsNow.......
By Christian Dem in NC (1 comment)
Cindy Jacobs--the new leader of the NAR
You may remember that Lou Engle has made moves of late to position himself as the new power in the religious right.  He's a member of the Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders, a group......
By Christian Dem in NC (1 comment)
James F. Linzey Espouses anti-Semitic, White Racialist Conspiracy Theory
James F. Linzey is a prominent, active duty chaplain in the United States military. Linzey has stated that he was the command chaplain for the Operation Iraqi Freedom troop mobilization prior to the US......
By Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
White Supremacist named as Holocaust Museum Shooter
An 89 year old, vehemently antiSemitic  Ron Paul supporter has been named by police as the gunman who opened fire in the Holocaust Museum shortly after noon today: Gunman, guard shot at Holocaust museum......
By CynthiaGee (0 comments)
From Focus On The Family to La Familia Michoacana
I didn't think my work on the religous right would converge with what I'm doing on the narcoguerra in Mexico...but here it is: the Faith-Based Cartel. ......
By julydogs (1 comment)
A Pagan Among the Mainstream Churches in Boise
The participation by an "out" Pagan in the Idaho Hunger Relief Task Force proves that some religions will accept and welcome help from all quarters, in recognition that we are all human.  The glaring......
By Chiawana (0 comments)
Clarkson on CounterSpin
Hear me discuss the Tiller assasination this week on the nationally syndicated radio program CounterSpin, the progressive media criticism show produced by Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR).  You can also listen via Mp3......
By Frederick Clarkson (0 comments)
Liberty Counsel tries to SLAPP Americans United
In what can charitably be described as an act of desperation, Liberty Counsel is asking the IRS to investigate Americans United's tax-exempt status.  This comes only days after AU asked the IRS to investigate......
By Christian Dem in NC (0 comments)
Strange how things bring the nutcases out
I read today that Westboro Baptist staged a protest at a vigil held for Dr. Tiller in Wichita.   I'm not surprised, but what did surprise me was that they had 20 people there......
By ArchaeoBob (0 comments)
Southern Baptists may be abandoning public schools
Via OneNewsNow, I discovered a story by former Southern Baptist Convention president Morris Chapman that appears to call for SBC churches to begin setting up Christian schools. I now wonder if our focus in......
By Christian Dem in NC (0 comments)
Footnote about Ammerman / Palin / Wagner Linkage
Colonel "Jim" Ammerman was listed as being an apostle in C. Peter Wagner's International Coalition of Apostles [see ICA prospectus] from the organization's inception in 2001 through to December 2008. The ICA is one......
By Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
The Singapore Struggle, after AWARE
An introductory post on steeplejacking in Singapore after the attempted takeover of a woman's NGO and a summary of recent updates. ......
By Sniper (2 comments)
What Does Bobby Jindal Really Want to Do To Louisiana Higher Education?
In recent weeks, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal has stood back and watched while both the Louisiana House and Senate wrestled with his original budget proposal to cut $219 million from Louisiana public higher education.......
By ulyankee (3 comments)
Yank Dominionists are considering taking over....New Zealand?????
No, it's not a plot for a bad sci-fi movie, it's.... "The Three Greatest Issues Facing the Men of New Zealand" ....and the first wave of the "invasion" has already hit the island, just......
By CynthiaGee (1 comment)
The AWARE steeplejackers and their deep connections to Joel's Army and American dominionists
Thanks to a few Singaporean friends (who shall remain anonymous), I had become aware of a disturbing development--an attempted hijack of a major women's NGO. Through those same folks and Fred Clarkson's post on......
By dogemperor (0 comments)
Common Enemies: LGBT, Abortion Share Foes
by Pam Chamberlain [On The Issues Magazine] When I was in college, a group of radical women dressed as witches ran around major U.S. cities doing zap actions, placing hexes on male-dominated institutions like......
By On The Issues Magazine (0 comments)
Florida Theocrats at it again.
There are two news articles in today's Ledger that are of concern. http://www.theledger.com/article/20090424/NEWS/904259979/1003/NEW S00?Title=Jesus-License-Plate-Could-Come The new license plates come up for a vote this year. http://www.theledger.com/article/20090423/NEWS/904235098/1005/NEW S02?Title=Bill-Would-Strengthen-Voucher-Program This bill, also possibly up for a......
By ArchaeoBob (4 comments)
Is Humanism Arrogant?
Much to the dismay of theocratic Christians, humanists claim that ethics can be understood without resorting to the supernatural or alleged divine authority from religious texts.  Christian theocrats say this is hubris. ......
By TMurray (8 comments)
Terry Schaivo back in the news
http://www.theledger.com/article/20090330/NEWS/903305040/1003/NEW S00?Title=Schiavo-Anniversary-Mass-Planned Another move by the religious right- rather than letting Terry go (after an autopsy PROVED that she had severe and irreversible brain damage), they're dragging her up again. ......
By ArchaeoBob (5 comments)
no ark no temple
how can you build a new temple in jerusalem if there is no ark of the covanent to put in it? book of jerimiah states that the ark will not be reconstructed. what does......
By keyknow (5 comments)
WND.com Cashes In on "Birther" Conspiracy Theories
WorldNetDaily has been spinning ridiculous yarns about Barack Obama since last year's presidential campaign, particularly about the idea that he's a foreign-born usurper to the Oval Office. Now you can own a peice of......
By Scoutstr295 (0 comments)
Did you know NC's constitution bars atheists from holding office?
When I found out that an Arkansas state rep is trying to repeal a provision in his state constitution that bars atheists from holding office, I remembered that, sadly, North Carolina's constitution has a......
By Christian Dem in NC (2 comments)
AP helping religious right again--this time in Arkansas
I'm starting to wonder if the American Family Association has a moleat the Associated Press. That's the only plausible explanation for an AP story about a possible referendum about removing constitutional restrictions on atheists......
By Christian Dem in NC (1 comment)
Creationists' new angle--it's in the name of academic freedom
(cross-posted at dKos) Looks like the creationist crowd is trying a new tack to try and get a toe in the evolution debate. Apparently shutting out discussion of creation amounts to a denial of......
By Christian Dem in NC (2 comments)
Religious right threatens lawsuit over provision of stimulus bill
cross-posted at dKos The American Center for Law and Justice is threatening a lawsuit over the stimulus package. At issue? A provision that it claims may force colleges receiving funds to renovate their facilities......
By Christian Dem in NC (3 comments)
Fundies raising stink about prospective gay appointment
cross-posted at dKosI had a funny feeling the religious right would find something about Obama to get worked up about, and wouldn't you know, it looks like they have.  Apparently the prospect of Obama--horrors!--appointing......
By Christian Dem in NC (1 comment)
The Churches may need Redefining
       John Aravosis www.americablog.com/ has reported that Archbishop Rino Fisichella is commenting on the arrogance of newly elected President Obama as someone who is opening the door to abortion and thus the......
By tangodaddy (1 comment)
Blackwater: Guns for Hire or Trojan Horsemen?
The Los Angeles Times reports this morning that  Blackwater security may be forced out of Iraq: "Blackwater Worldwide,the security firm that allegedly used excessive force to protect U.S. diplomats in Iraq, will soon be......
By CynthiaGee (0 comments)
If Abortion is Murder what do you do with the Killers?
This is a video I found today of a guy who interviewed pro-life activists at an anti-abortion rally. The interviewer asked the question, "What do you do with all of the women who commit......
By inlikeflint (0 comments)
Boston Globe Notes Warren's Hitler Cites, Misses "Africa Problem"
As a new Boston Globe article, "Effort to surmount polarizing debates backfires on pastor", by Michael Paulson, noticed, "The Huffington Post, noting that Warren has cited the success Hitler, Lenin and Mao had at......
By Bruce Wilson (4 comments)

More Diaries...


Donate to or support
Talk to Action

Left Behind: Eternal Forces: Installments of Jonathan Hutson's Talk To Action expose series on the "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" video game have been viewed by up to 1/2 million people. See our site section featuring Over 35 original articles covering the controversial "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" video game that has provoked a boycott by a coalition of religious groups and a letter writing campaign urging Walmart to stop selling the game. Media inquiries click here
(image: detail from Francoise Dubois' rendition of the Bartholomew's Day Massacre reveals the actual nature of religious warfare)