A Really Stupid Idea
wilkyjr printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:48:25 PM EST
For decades I have heard 501c3 reminders about what is legal to do in a church.  Groups like Americans United for Separation, the ACLU, Rick Scarbrough and etc. have all laid out what is legal for a church to engage in regarding politics.  I have often been reminded that it is perfectly legal for a church to have a forum for potential candidates.  Most of us who work on church calendars would not consider such a proposal.  If we were willing to take a risk of promoting such a program, we would have enough sense to make sure the minister was not the one who controlled the format and the questions.
Can any of us imagine Billy Graham hosting a public event where he moderated  a debate between Nixon and Kennedy? I was not comfortable with my old classmate interviewing GOP candidates for President while he headed the Southern Baptist Convention.  His public sharing of private conversations appeared to violate pastoral ministry.

Rick Warren brought Senators McCain and Obama into his arena to ask them questions.  He chose the questions and controlled the length of response.  I know enough about criticism of journalism to wonder at such.  Each week I receive emails about how slanted the media is against McCain or how they let the Arizona Senator off the hook not asking him the right questions.  The conclusion is you will never be able to please all sides in the public debate and will only serve to offend someone.  Warren left himself open to this criticism. Conservative, right wing,  www.onenewsnow.com claims McCain was the clear winner.  Obama fans I know are upset that the debate was slanted in favor of McCain.  McCain followers might ask about a minister seeking to come up with the largest moral lapse in a candidate's life as none of their business if it is going to be blurted out over the nation's airwaves.  Critics might wonder at the Constitutional grounds violated by religiously slanted questions asked potential government leaders.

USA TODAY carried an article by Dewayne Wickman taking Warren to task for acting like the candidates were running for church vicar.  Wickham's opinion was that Warren was using double speak when he claimed to believe in separation of church and state.  Brent walker of the Bapatst Joint Committee voiced concern about Rick's claim to believe in separation yet he advocated violating Civil Rights in faith-based organizations.  Walker has serious problems with Warren's view of the First Amendment promoting the government funding of religious organizations.  A position most Baptist experts claim is a violation of the Constitution.    Warren, who stated he believed in separation of church and state, would be hard pressed to find a scholar, court, or informed Baptist who would go along with him on this.  Richard Land is one of the few who favors this and is the only one I heard of who thought Warren's program was great.

Mark McEntire wrote in www.ethicsdaily.com that Warren was in violation of the spirit of the Constitution.  He was uncomfortable with the entire thing and stated Warren lied to the media and church claiming he did not know McCain heard the questions beforehand.  

Rick grilled the candidates on when life began whenever there  is no legal or Christian agreement on that fact.  There is not a clear agreement on when life begins and ends with either church or state.  Does Warren hold funerals for women who had miscarriages?  Does he tell his congregation that women who take some birth control pills which destroy a fertilized egg are murders?  Does Rick know that Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson have all gone on public record as supporting some reasons for abortions?  Is saving the life of a mother reason for an abortion?  

Sources are now claiming McCain has just gone ahead in the polls.  Will this all fall at the feet of Rick Warren who controlled what was asked and had a huge influence on the nation's future?  Warren backed Bush before in an election that was not close. If a close election is decided in McCain's favor and an extended time in Iraq does not work out for the nation, will Rick Warren be held accountable?

Warren has been promoted as the golden boy to deliver us from the religious right and a more tolerant view about global warming than religious right figures allowed. He was the great hope and some thought he would replace Billy Graham as the unofficial pastor of the nation.  Wether of not he takes Graham's place is left to history.  One thing for sure is that he shot himself in the foot on this one.

You might say you get what you pay for.  Warren heads a counter culture church movement.  It represents a movement in rebellion against church traditions. He preaches in shorts and a golf shirt.  There are no hymnals and traditonal programs.  There is no denominational name.  The building does not look like a church.  All these traditions are viewed as excess luggage.  One of those discarded bags is government endorsement of religion.  If Rick is going to be such a huge player in the nation, one hopes he will take the time to look at the First Amendment.


WWW Talk To Action

Cognitive Dissonance & Dominionism Denial
There is new research on why people are averse to hearing or learning about the views of ideological opponents. Based on evaluation of five......
By Frederick Clarkson (374 comments)
Will the Air Force Do Anything To Rein In Its Dynamic Duo of Gay-Bashing, Misogynistic Bloggers?
"I always get nervous when I see female pastors/chaplains. Here is why everyone should as well: "First, women are not called to be pastors,......
By Chris Rodda (198 comments)
The Legacy of Big Oil
The media is ablaze with the upcoming publication of David Grann's book, Killers of the Flower Moon. The shocking non fiction account of the......
By wilkyjr (111 comments)
Gimme That Old Time Dominionism Denial
Over the years, I have written a great deal here and in other venues about the explicitly theocratic movement called dominionism -- which has......
By Frederick Clarkson (101 comments)
History Advisor to Members of Congress Completely Twists Jefferson's Words to Support Muslim Ban
Pseudo-historian David Barton, best known for his misquoting of our country's founders to promote the notion that America was founded as a Christian nation,......
By Chris Rodda (113 comments)
"Christian Fighter Pilot" Calls First Lesbian Air Force Academy Commandant a Liar
In a new post on his "Christian Fighter Pilot" blog titled "BGen Kristin Goodwin and the USAFA Honor Code," Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan......
By Chris Rodda (144 comments)
Catholic Right Leader Unapologetic about Call for 'Death to Liberal Professors' -- UPDATED
Today, Donald Trump appointed C-FAM Executive Vice President Lisa Correnti to the US Delegation To UN Commission On Status Of Women. (C-FAM is a......
By Frederick Clarkson (126 comments)
Controlling Information
     Yesterday I listened to Russ Limbaugh.  Rush advised listeners it would be best that they not listen to CNN,MSNBC, ABC, CBS and......
By wilkyjr (118 comments)
Is Bannon Fifth-Columning the Pope?
In December 2016 I wrote about how White House chief strategist Steve Bannon, who likes to flash his Catholic credentials when it comes to......
By Frank Cocozzelli (250 comments)
Ross Douthat's Hackery on the Seemingly Incongruous Alliance of Bannon & Burke
Conservative Catholic writer Ross Douthat has dissembled again. This time, in a February 15, 2017 New York Times op-ed titled The Trump Era's Catholic......
By Frank Cocozzelli (64 comments)
`So-Called Patriots' Attack The Rule Of Law
Every so often, right-wing commentator Pat Buchanan lurches out of the far-right fever swamp where he has resided for the past 50 years to......
By Rob Boston (161 comments)
Bad Faith from Focus on the Family
Here is one from the archives, Feb 12, 2011, that serves as a reminder of how deeply disingenuous people can be. Appeals to seek......
By Frederick Clarkson (177 comments)
The Legacy of George Wallace
"One need not accept any of those views to agree that they had appealed to real concerns of real people, not to mindless, unreasoning......
By wilkyjr (70 comments)
Betsy DeVos's Mudsill View of Public Education
My Talk to Action colleague Rachel Tabachnick has been doing yeoman's work in explaining Betsy DeVos's long-term strategy for decimating universal public education. If......
By Frank Cocozzelli (80 comments)
Prince and DeVos Families at Intersection of Radical Free Market Privatizers and Religious Right
This post from 2011 surfaces important information about President-Elect Trump's nominee for Secretary of Education, Betsy DeVos. -- FC Erik Prince, Brother of Betsy......
By Rachel Tabachnick (218 comments)

Respect for Others? or Political Correctness?
The term "political correctness" as used by Conservatives and Republicans has often puzzled me: what exactly do they mean by it? After reading Chip Berlin's piece here-- http://www.talk2action.org/story/2016/7/21/04356/9417 I thought about what he explained......
MTOLincoln (253 comments)
What I'm feeling now is fear.  I swear that it seems my nightmares are coming true with this new "president".  I'm also frustrated because so many people are not connecting all the dots! I've......
ArchaeoBob (107 comments)
"America - love it or LEAVE!"
I've been hearing that and similar sentiments fairly frequently in the last few days - far FAR more often than ever before.  Hearing about "consequences for burning the flag (actions) from Trump is chilling!......
ArchaeoBob (211 comments)
"Faked!" Meme
Keep your eyes and ears open for a possible move to try to discredit the people openly opposing Trump and the bigots, especially people who have experienced terrorism from the "Right"  (Christian Terrorism is......
ArchaeoBob (165 comments)
More aggressive proselytizing
My wife told me today of an experience she had this last week, where she was proselytized by a McDonald's employee while in the store. ......
ArchaeoBob (163 comments)
See if you recognize names on this list
This comes from the local newspaper, which was conservative before and took a hard right turn after it was sold. Hint: Sarah Palin's name is on it!  (It's also connected to Trump.) ......
ArchaeoBob (169 comments)
Unions: A Labor Day Discussion
This is a revision of an article which I posted on my personal board and also on Dailykos. I had an interesting discussion on a discussion board concerning Unions. I tried to piece it......
Xulon (172 comments)
Extremely obnoxious protesters at WitchsFest NYC: connected to NAR?
In July of this year, some extremely loud, obnoxious Christian-identified protesters showed up at WitchsFest, an annual Pagan street fair here in NYC.  Here's an account of the protest by Pagan writer Heather Greene......
Diane Vera (130 comments)
Capitalism and the Attack on the Imago Dei
I joined this site today, having been linked here by Crooksandliars' Blog Roundup. I thought I'd put up something I put up previously on my Wordpress blog and also at the DailyKos. As will......
Xulon (331 comments)
History of attitudes towards poverty and the churches.
Jesus is said to have stated that "The Poor will always be with you" and some Christians have used that to refuse to try to help the poor, because "they will always be with......
ArchaeoBob (148 comments)
Alternate economy medical treatment
Dogemperor wrote several times about the alternate economy structure that dominionists have built.  Well, it's actually made the news.  Pretty good article, although it doesn't get into how bad people could be (have been)......
ArchaeoBob (90 comments)
Evidence violence is more common than believed
Think I've been making things up about experiencing Christian Terrorism or exaggerating, or that it was an isolated incident?  I suggest you read this article (linked below in body), which is about our great......
ArchaeoBob (214 comments)

More Diaries...

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments, posts, stories, and all other content are owned by the authors. Everything else 2005 Talk to Action, LLC.