First, the Myers-Donohue flap. In a posting at his web site Pharyngula for July 10, 2008, University of Minnesota, Morris associate professor of biology and atheist activist P.Z. Myers, screeded on an episode featuring one Webster Cook, a University of Central Florida undergraduate who attended a Mass on campus. He had stood in line to receive the Eucharist. But instead of eating it as to take part of the Sacrament of Communion he took it back to his seat to show his friend and then held onto what Catholics call "the Host" for a week before returning it after several people threatened his life:
I find this all utterly unbelievable. It's like Dark Age superstition and malice, all thriving with the endorsement of secular institutions here in 21st century America. It is a culture of deluded lunatics calling the shots and making human beings dance to their mythical bunkum. But if Myers was provocative, the Catholic League's Bill Donohue was more so. In one of his counter-screeds, Bill Bluster declared:
"Myers went on Houston radio station KPFT last night saying that Bill Donohue has 'declared a fatwa' against him. He should know better -- I don't need others to do the fighting for me. I'm quite good at it myself. But he'd better be careful what he says, because if I get any death threats, it won't be hard to connect the dots. Myers then responded in kind:
That is the true power of the cracker, this silly symbol of superstition. Fortunately, Catholicism has mellowed with age - the last time a Catholic nation rose up to slaughter its non-Christian citizenry was a whole 70 years ago, after all - but the sentiment still lingers. Catholicism has been actively poisoning the minds of its practitioners with the most amazing bullshit for years, and until recently, I had no idea that a significant number of people actually believed this nonsense, or that the hatred was still simmering there, waiting for an opportunity to rise up in misplaced defense of absurdity. Let's consider a few points regarding this rhetorical barroom brawl which brought out the worst kinds of yahooism from their respective partisans: First, the "cracker" of which Myers speaks is the Eucharist. For Catholics such as myself (who like Myers, are liberals and believe in evolution) believe it to be the Body of Christ. One might argue that because communion wafers mean nothing to him, why should he have to worry about what they mean to others? But Myers has gratuitously insulted what I and many other Catholics of good will also believe to be sacred. He has recklessly lumped me in with Nazis, some of whom also professed to be Christians -- both Catholics and Protestants. And he creates simplistic categories of atheist/good/intelligent and faithful people/bad/ignorant. Reality is nowhere near that clear-cut. Why does Professor Myers feel the need to insult the beliefs of others? He claims to be a liberal. Yet such confrontational behavior is both illiberal and unenlightened. "I never will, by any word or act" wrote Thomas Jefferson, "bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others." While Jefferson avoided the shrine of intolerance, Professor Myers appears to be a pilgrim and cult follower. Myers' desecration of a Eucharist does nothing to ennoble the cause of reason. Instead, it only creates an atmosphere where fellow citizens with differing views of God and different religious practices opinions on the existence of God view each other, as Robert F. Kennedy observed; "as enemies - to be met not with cooperation but with conquest, to be subjugated and mastered." Secondly, Myers' allusion to that "Catholic nation" of seventy years ago is an obvious reference to pre-Second World War Germany. However, Germany in 1938 was far from being a predominantly Catholic country. Actually, the breakdown back then was about two-thirds Protestant (mostly being Lutheran) and one-third was Roman Catholic. Such rhetoric exposes Myers as an intellectually lazy and ignorant bigot, who violates Godwin's Law; (the use of inflammatory rhetoric or exaggerated comparisons to Hitler and Nazism). His "cracker" comment is a distraction from the point that Myers tries to blame Catholicism for the Holocaust! Didn't we last hear that one from John Hagee? As for the self-appointed defender of all-things-Catholic, Bill Donohue, it is incredible that the Catholicism-as-Nazism analogy went right past him (or did it?). But beyond that, he really ought to know more about his own professed faith. First of all, when Donohue derides those of us who believe in evolution as "the King Kong Theory of Creation gang" he derides many of his fellow Catholics, including the late Pope John Paul II who in 1996 described the theory of evolution, "...as more than an hypothesis." And contrary to what Donohue rants about, it runs contrary to a 2006 Vatican statement issued by the Vatican's astronomer Guy J. Consolmagno S.J., who flatly stated, "Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it close to reality, to protect it from creationism, which [turns] God into a nature god. And science needs religion in order to have a conscience, to know that, just because something is possible, it may not necessarily be a good thing to do." In fact, in 2009 the Vatican will be hosting a symposium on why evolution and creation as described in Genesis are compatible. By the way, the initials "S.J." following Father Consolmagno's name stands for Society of Jesus. The astronomer-priest is one of the supposed anti-science Jesuits P.Z. Myers sarcastically claimed is coming after him. But back to Donohue, who said: "Indeed, we've been inundated with hate mail from all over the world, and it all stems from those whose alleged god is reason." Bill should know that Catholicism's emphasis on reason is one of the things that distinguishes it from Protestant fundamentalism. The natural law principles he and his fellow Catholic Right reactionaries constantly cite in opposing homosexual rights and embryonic stem cell research is nothing more than St. Thomas Aquinas interpreting such non-Catholic thinkers such as Aristotle and Cicero, all believers in reason. The rub comes because Myers and his ilk want the conflict. They are provocative in their language because in fact they (just like Donohue and his ilk) do not respect the sensibilities of others. They feed on conflict and don't care about the consequences. In one corner we have P.Z. Meyers who wants open conflict with the Catholic League and in the other is Blusterin' Bill Donohue who earns more than $325,000 a year obliging folks such as Myers. The strident clash with the strident, with no interest in cooperation or commonality; no search for seeking out that which unites us, not divides as Americans. Such engagements leave all sides only with bitterness, anger and the need to endlessly continue this unproductive game of one-upsmanship. And still in this debacle of what passes for debate it is clearly Donohue who is the more pernicious actor. Representing an organization ostensibly based upon Catholic principles, he egregiously raises the stakes in a dangerously escalating game of highly charged rhetoric. His bombastic diatribes only encourage those who are threatening the Minnesota professor with bodily harm and death. Is that truly "the Catholic response" Donohue seeks? If it is, it ultimately harms the Catholic cause, one that should be based on pitying and turning the other check to the likes of P. Z. Myers. Jesus would not have resorted to rallying the mob -- and neither should Donohue. All of this brings us to the terrible shootings at the Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville. Jim D. Adkisson is the man accused of the July 27, 2008 killing of two people and wounding six others during a children's musical at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church. According to the Associated Press:
A four-page letter found in Adkisson's SUV indicated he picked the church for the attack because, the Knoxville police chief said, "he hated the liberal movement" of the congregation.
Adkisson "stated that he had targeted the church because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country," investigator Steve Still wrote. A search of Adkisson's home uncovered material from several right-wing talking heads:
Inside the house, officers found "Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder" by radio talk show host Michael Savage, "Let Freedom Ring" by talk show host Sean Hannity, and "The O'Reilly Factor," by television talk show host Bill O'Reilly. While there is no evidence that the rhetoric of Savage, Hannity and O'Reilly dumped gasoline on the anti-liberal and otherwise hateful rages of a disturbed man, it certainly does raise the question in my mind. Meanwhile, professional and amateur provocateurs like Myers, Donohue and Adkinsson's favorite talk show hosts continue to dominate our public discourse with bogus issues, false outrage, and inflammatory rhetoric.
When Opposites Attack | 29 comments (29 topical, 0 hidden)
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
Sage advice indeed for Donohue, Myers and for all of us to live by.
Some years ago, I came up with "Prup's Law" which goes:
Whatever side you take in any political, religious, social, or sexual controversy, you'll have some idiots agreeing with you. PZ -- sadly, because the man can be both intelligent and a truly great writer -- has surpassed Sam Harris as the primary exemplar of the law for atheists like myself. I left the Catholic Church over 45 years ago, but I'd never do something like this, because I am a humanist first, and people -- and their feelings -- count. I'll attack truly malevolent religions, like those Dogemperor writes about so well, and will defend against any religion that tries to enforce its beliefs on society as a whole, but this was pointless and insulting.
And, btw, I went to a Jesuit High School between 1960 and 1963, and no one ever even questioned the obvious truth of evolution. In fact, rather than being 'anti-science' the science course I was given was miles ahead of anything my (much younger) wife was exposed to in Public High School a decade and a half later. In 10th Grade, the course was based on the basics of nuclear physics -- no biology, because there just wasn't room in the curriculum or room in the school for another lab, not because they were 'afraid' of it.
in fact, he too was an atheist, as well as a hate-talk junkie. I only mention this because some people have tried to tie him to the Religious Right. There are a lot of 'home-grown terrorists' who are, but not him.
by Prup aka Jim Benton on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 01:11:12 PM EST
PZ's attack was offensive, but so was Screamin' Bill's response. The supreme irony was in the people making death threats to PZ. Would Jesus have done that?
Bill should know better than to espouse know-nothingism and abandon reason. He and Adkisson are good examples of the folks that use and succumb to mob psychology.
As a student of rhetoric especially interested in religion and public argument, I agree that needlessly contentious language does undermine public discourse, and I don't find Professor Myers's language at all helpful. However, I'm curious as to how you would define the bounds of acceptable public discourse. You criticize Myers for insulting the beliefs of others and for not respecting others's sensibilities, but Myers's langauge, disrespectful as it is, doesn't seem to be in the same category as the violent eliminationist rhetoric coming from some on the right whom Adkisson may have been influenced by. Disrespect can certainly be a first step along a path to more violent rhetoric, but I don't think disrespect inevitabily leads to violence, because at some level disrespect seems inevitable when dealing with issues of religion and fundamental beliefs. In what ways could I respectfully convey my belief to you or other Catholics that I do not believe in what you believe to be sacred? These matters are difficult to discuss, even when all involved have the best intentions (i.e. the intention not to provoke for provocation's sake), because we are dealing with irreconcilable worldviews. As an atheist and Ethical Culturalist, for example, I've found that what I hold to be the highest (what some might call holy, though I don't use such terms), others hold to be the highest blasphemy. I have certainly felt my blood boil when some religious believers have insisted that the state of my eternal soul is more important that doing good in this life, which I believe is the only life humans have, or when their conception of good works is diametrically opposed to my own. But I would rather we honestly disagree, even with the consequence of (hopefully temporarily) offending each other than masking our differences. It doesn't seem as though we as a society can talk about our differences without being insulted to some extent. The question then becomes where do we draw the line between unacceptable provocation and honest disagreement, and is there a way to draw it so that it does not privilege certain views as above criticism, which also hampers public discourse? by Todd B on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 09:31:20 PM EST
University of Central Florida students Webster Cook and Benjamin Collard are both suffering unjustified harassment, such as having their academic careers put in limbo because they're blocked from registering for future classes. Cook faces likely impeachment from his seat in the student senate.
At least the death threats (to the best of my knowledge, all directed against Cook and Myers, and none against Donohue) seem to have ceased for the time being.
This is not an issue of who accepts evolution or other scientific perspectives. It's a question of whether a powerful institution's claims of special privilege derived from supernatural assertions should influence public university policies, and provide a shield against examining that institution's dubious dogma and disgraceful history.
to start a new reply sequence here, as T2A's thread formatting is ill-suited to prolonged conversation.
Frank C's "explanation" of "why Myers is wrong" consists mostly of personal statements of being offended by "confrontational behavior", defining wrongness in terms of courtesy and social standards. (I wish him luck in proving that what Myers says about the physical status of the cracker is factually wrong - but my wishes have about the same efficacy in affecting the world's being as a ritual chant.) Frank C also complains of being "lumped ... in with Nazis", which might have more validity if not accompanied by lumping Myers with Donohue, Savage, Hannity and O'Reilly. I have made no judgement about Myers in general ... Oh? ... ostensibly liberal ... so recklessly inflammatory ... religious bigotry... Which last allows me an opportunity to again attempt to lift this dialog beyond tit-for-tat nitpickery. You should have little trouble believing me when I say that Myers is opposed to all supernatural creeds with equal vehemence, from stately Vatican processionals in exquisitely-tailored robes to naked new-agers cavorting around Stonehenge under a full moon, and for the same reasons. Lacking animus for specific sects, for this attitude to be labeled religious bigotry requires that term to be defined, which I ask you to do, with an eye towards whether such definition includes all forms of atheism (except possibly the most obsequious). Given the uncompromising descriptors regularly applied here for such hatemongers and hallucinators as Hagee, LaHaye, Rushdoony, et cetera ad infinitum, I'm sure your definition will not cite "inflammatory language" regarding clergy with large and devoted followings, right? T2A's on-going and eye-opening series about the Catholic right demonstrates clearly that y'all agree that core strands of that church's membership and doctrines are harmful in many ways. I'm glad you don't hold the entire Church beyond approbation, but just where do you draw the line? Thank you for not summarily banning me, as is certainly your right as site owner, and for re-stating the central theme here. The latter is one I share (though we've debated earlier whether "religious right" is even the most appropriate term for the problem), so kindly allow me to join Todd B above in asking you for further clarification of local standards. Given that believers (such as Frank C and others) have free rein to affirm their faith here, what are the T2A policies regarding non-believers expressing their opinions? Are there any uncloseted atheists among the T2A crew, and is any other viewpoint allowed here towards freethought beyond - as in your closing 'graf - sneering at it?
Finally, a small item of good news: By a unanimous vote, Webster Cook and Ben Collard are cleared of all charges at the University of Central Florida.
Check out John Bloom posting as Joe Bob Briggs and his experience at an atheist rally. John is the editor of the Wittenburg Door which is one of the funniest religious satire sites around.
www.thewittenburgdoor.org/joe-bob-parties-atheists
When Opposites Attack | 29 comments (29 topical, 0 hidden)
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