Nobody Likes a Liar: Rick Warren's John Hagee Moment ?
Bruce Wilson printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 11:22:16 AM EST
Experience has taught Rick Warren that he can get away with holding up Hitler youth, to his church members, as a model of dedication to a cause. But, Warren may just have gone too far, because nobody likes a liar. As Larry King declared on Larry King Live, "No matter what you think of Rick Warren, he's an extraordinary guy." Warren is indeed extra-ordinary, because ordinary Christian sensibility-as defined by the Ten Commandments that have helped shape Judaism and it's daughter religions, Christianity and Islam-would commonly hold that it's at the very least unseemly to lie. Rick Warren appears to be under the impression that it's possible in this day and age to be filmed espousing one position, then declare on national television, that he had never done anything of the sort. And, why might Rick Warren think so ? Well, John Hagee got away with as much - though Hagee was careful in his statements to avoid, in strict terms, technically lying. Activists such as Pam Spaulding are rightfully holding Rick Warren's big anti-gay ego to the fire for one of the few things that might just knock the mega-evangelist off his global perch.
As Pam Spaulding sums it up:

"Oh the joy of getting busted lying on international TV and having to do serious damage control. My post on Tuesday, "Rick Warren lies about his homobigotry on Larry King Live," was picked up by Huff Post and created a buzz for  pointing out that on the man who delivered the invocation at the President's inaugural, Rick Warren, the spiritual leader of Saddleback church, flat-out lied about his support for Prop 8. A recap from the CNN transcript..."

WARREN: During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement, never -- never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop 8 was going.

But of course he seemed to have forgotten his message to his flock prior to the election where he very clearly endorsed Prop 8:

WARREN: Here's an interesting thing: there are about 2% of Americans are homosexual, gay, lesbian people. We should not let 2% of the population determine -- to change a definition of marriage that has been supported by every single culture and every single religion for 5,000 years. This is not even just a Christian issue, it is a humanitarian and human issue, that God created marriage for the purpose of family, love and procreation. I urge you to support Proposition 8 and to pass that on.

John Hagee got away with his wholesale attempts to revise the date on which he gave his late 2005 "God sent a hunter. Hitler was a hunter." sermon that I helped bring to public attention last year. In the ensuing media hullabuloo, Hagee first claimed he was being roasted for something he had said "decades ago." In a letter of pseudo-apology to the ADL, Hagee put the date at the late 1990's. But at that time his ministry was still selling DVD's of the notorious sermon.

So, it's not all that surprising that Rick Warren thought he could lie shamelessly on Larry King Live and get away with it, but if there's one value shared among Christian and non-Christian alike it's this: nobody likes a liar.




Display:
I hope people followup on this. Share it and give it airtime, especially among his supporters in the right wing, for it appears that he is less than genuine in his opposition to gay marriage, when he can tell Larry King that he wasn't fighting it, but personally opposed, and shared that with someone close to him who asked his opinion. I appears that both sides of this debate could be offended by what he had to say, as well as people who just plain want people to be real, saying what they mean and meaning what they say. My own position, is also not completely clear, as I passionately believe that the best pattern is marriage between one man and one woman, but believe that those in a committed relationship should have the right to marry. We also have to recognize the historical patterns of polygamy as well as the contemporary practice of "serial marriages" all which are outside by personal preference of one man and one woman. The question reminds we of the question of the seven brothers, all marrying their brothers widow. "In the resurrection, whose wife will she be?" and Jesus with a smile and a shake of his head says. "You greatly error, not understanding the nature of the resurrection, for in heaven there is no marriage." So many of our battles are over earthly things, and show our lack of understanding of the kingdom of God's Grace.

by chaplain on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 03:40:02 PM EST
I don't know that there is as good an argument for polygamous marriage (in this day and age) as there is for gay marriage.

While there is an argument historically for polygamy (it's been practiced for thousands of years) it developed out of the belief that women are chattel -- property to be owned -- and certainly expected to be subservient to their husband.

That is still true today, and while I would concede there are a few women who quite happily marry into such situations, there is plenty of evidence that the cults who practice it have to engage in a lot of grooming (i.e brainwashing) of girls and young women so they are receptive when the time comes for them to be married.

Just as we would never, as a society, legally protect arranged marriage (another longstanding institution in some culture) I don't believe we will ever sanction polygamous marriages, and I don't believe we should either. It would be a large step backwards for women's rights.

by tacitus on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 09:14:32 PM EST
Parent

Just a guess.

by Bruce Wilson on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 09:51:41 PM EST
Parent



Rick Warren was a no-show for ABC's This Week with George Stephanopolis this morning -- he was supposed to be the only guest, but canceled at the very last minute, citing "exhaustion" as the reason.

Now, that could be true, but it was awfully convenient that he had an excuse to back out of one of the few shows he would probably agree to appear on where he would not necessarily get an easy ride.  (All Larry King does is puffery, which is why he stays in business.)

by tacitus on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 09:03:03 PM EST

I have pictures from George Bush Sr.'s 80th birthday, with John Hagee posing alongside Condi Rice, Dick Cheney, Bush Sr., Randy Travis, and... Larry King. It seemed very chummy.

I agree with your analysis.

by Bruce Wilson on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 09:41:43 PM EST
Parent



Ten Commandments that have helped shape Judaism and it's daughter religions, Christianity and Judaism.expanded functions dental assistant

by cilky698 on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 10:42:19 AM EST

Christian issue, it is a humanitarian and human issue, that God created marriage for the purpose of family, love and procreation. I urge you to support Proposition 8 and to pass that on.conos viales

by antichero on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 11:29:30 AM EST

I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement, never -- never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop 8 was going.smarsh.com


by volf698 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 at 11:41:43 AM EST

Well, John Hagee got away with as much - though Hagee was careful in his statements to avoid,top HCG drops


by volf698 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 11:41:04 AM EST

Buy remedies or Medication... excellent material with excellent achievements... keep operating on excellent details ... thanks for it.https:/1blick.de


by volf698 on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:19:31 AM EST

In different forum, that can be different usages for it. So it depends on the function of the bricks.smarsh


by mike12 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 06:52:07 AM EST

I made a investigation on the topic and found many people will agree with your article. Any way I'll be subscribing to your feed and I wish you post again soon.birkin bags


by mike12 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 04:28:06 PM EST

I like the valuable details you provide in your material. I would save your blog page and examine again here regularly. tapetes personalizados


by mike12 on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 05:13:49 PM EST

Me and my friend were arguing about an problem similar to this! Now I realize that I had been correct. lol! Thank you for that information you article.pisos para gimnasio


by mike12 on Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 04:32:35 PM EST

Your blog is really design as clean and superb and the information of your blog is very interesting, I really enjoyed it and I also want more information about this, thanks for sharing.topes de hule


by chineseboy on Thu Aug 23, 2012 at 05:28:22 AM EST

 Here's an interesting thing: there are about 2% of Americans are homosexual, gay, lesbian people. tapetes con logotipo


by nilky698 on Tue Sep 11, 2012 at 03:32:20 AM EST


WWW Talk To Action


An Assassin's Motivation?
On June 17, 2015, Dylann Roof quietly sat in the prayer meeting at African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina before he shot......
By wilkyjr (0 comments)
Christian Right Turns to Nullification to Counter Marriage Equality
Last year in The Public Eye magazine, Rachel Tabachnick and Frank L. Cocozzelli warned of the trend on the religious and political Right toward......
By Frederick Clarkson (2 comments)
Historian Gerald Horne on Charleston, Church, & Slave Resistance
Professor Gerald Horne of the University of Houston notes the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church was at the center of Black resistance to slavery......
By Chip Berlet (2 comments)
The Zealots Strike Back: Latest Religious Right Sputtering Over Marriage Equality Is More Weak Tea
I've been monitoring the Religious Right's response to the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling on marriage equality, and I'm not impressed.So far, the reaction of......
By Rob Boston (0 comments)
Is Koch Brothers Money Fueling Criticism of Pope Francis on Climate Change?
In my last post I examined conservative criticism of Laudato Sii, ("Praised Be"), Pope Francis's encyclical on the environment and poverty. Indeed, some of......
By Frank Cocozzelli (3 comments)
Politics in Theocratic Times
The matter of religious exemptions from civil rights and labor laws is at the cutting edge of the contemporary political strategy of the Christian......
By Frederick Clarkson (1 comment)
Why Is the Christian Right Remaining Silent About the Dennis Hastert Affair?
In early June, the Associated Press' Mary Clare Jalonick reported that a Montana woman interviewed by the FBI claimed that "her brother was sexually......
By Bill Berkowitz (1 comment)
Remembering James Dunn: Baptist Champion Of Religious Freedom
When I began working for Americans United in 1987, one thing confused me: Why were there so many Southern Baptists hanging around?Southern Baptists were......
By Rob Boston (0 comments)
Resistance Is Futile: Some County Clerks Say `I Won't' To Marriage Equality
One week ago, the U.S. Supreme Court extended marriage equality nationwide. So where are we now?To no one's surprise, leaders of the Religious Right......
By Rob Boston (2 comments)
Celebrating July 4th
A decade or so ago I was vacationing in Hot Springs,  Arkansas.  It was July 4th and I attended the First Baptist Church in......
By wilkyjr (1 comment)
Nine Mainline Protestant Christian Martyrs
This is a tricky time for the Christian Right. Immediately following the mass murder at the historic Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal (AME) Church in......
By Frederick Clarkson (4 comments)
Terms, Definitions & Glossaries for Writing about the Religious Right
One of the challenges in writing about the Religious Right and what to do about it is the matter of terms and definitions. That's......
By Frederick Clarkson (2 comments)
Top Southern Baptist Official Admits Churches Won't Be Forced To Marry Same-Sex Couples
For years now, Religious Right leaders have been whipping up hysteria by claiming that, should marriage equality become the law of the land, conservative......
By Rob Boston (3 comments)
The Pope, Climate Change and the Catholic Right.
The conservative criticism of Laudato Sii, ("Praised Be"), Pope Francis's encyclical on the environment and poverty that began even before its release, has now......
By Frank Cocozzelli (4 comments)
Simply Put -- LGBTQ rights are not a threat to religious freedom
I'd like to underscore the conclusion of this piece, which is crossposted from LGBTQ Nation.  The advance of civil rights for LGBTQ people is......
By Frederick Clarkson (2 comments)

Evidence violence is more common than believed
Think I've been making things up about experiencing Christian Terrorism or exaggerating, or that it was an isolated incident?  I suggest you read this article (linked below in body), which is about our great......
ArchaeoBob (0 comments)
Central Florida Sheriff Preached Sermon in Uniform
If anyone has been following the craziness in Polk County Florida, they know that some really strange and troubling things have happened here.  We've had multiple separation of church and state lawsuits going at......
ArchaeoBob (2 comments)
Demon Mammon?
An anthropologist from outer space might be forgiven for concluding that the god of this world is Mammon. (Or, rather, The Market, as depicted by John McMurtry in his book The Cancer Stage of......
daerie (0 comments)
Anti-Sharia Fever in Texas: This is How It Starts
The mayor of a mid-size Texan city has emerged in recent months as the newest face of Islamophobia. Aligning herself with extremists hostile to Islam, Mayor Beth Van Duyne of Irving, Texas has helped......
JSanford (0 comments)
Evangelicals Seduced By Ayn Rand Worship Crypto-Satanism, Suggest Scholars
[update: also see my closely related stories, "Crypto-Cultists" and "Cranks": The Video Paul Ryan Hoped Would Go Away, and The Paul Ryan/Ayn Rand/Satanism Connection Made Simple] "I give people Ayn Rand with trappings" -......
Bruce Wilson (11 comments)
Ted Cruz Anointed By Pastor Who Says Jesus Opposed Minimum Wage, and Constitution Based on the Bible
In the video below, from a July 19-20th, 2013 pastor's rally at a Marriott Hotel in Des Moines, Iowa, Tea Party potentate Ted Cruz is blessed by religious right leader David Barton, who claims......
Bruce Wilson (0 comments)
Galt and God: Ayn Randians and Christian Rightists Expand Ties
Ayn Rand's followers find themselves sharing a lot of common ground with the Christian Right these days. The Tea Party, with its stress on righteous liberty and a robust form of capitalism, has been......
JSanford (3 comments)
Witchhunts in Africa and the U.S.A.
Nigerian human rights activist Leo Igwe has recently written at least two blog posts about how some African Pentecostal churches are sending missionaries to Europe and the U.S.A. in an attempt to "re-evangelize the......
Diane Vera (1 comment)
Charles Taze Russell and John Hagee
No doubt exists that Texas mega-church Pastor John Hagee would be loathe to be associated with the theology of Pastor C.T. Russell (wrongly credited with founding the Jehovah's Witnesses) but their theological orbits, while......
COinMS (0 comments)
A death among the common people ... imagination.
Or maybe my title would better fit as “Laws, Books, where to find, and the people who trust them.”What a society we've become!The wise ones tell us over and over how the more things......
Arthur Ruger (0 comments)
Deconstructing the Dominionists, Part VI
This is part 6 of a series by guest front pager Mahanoy, originally dated November 15, 2007 which I had to delete and repost for technical reasons. It is referred to in this post,......
Frederick Clarkson (1 comment)
Republican infighting in Mississippi
After a bruising GOP runoff election for U.S. Senator, current MS Senator Thad Cochran has retained his position and will face Travis Childers (Democrat) in the next senate election. The MS GOP is fractured......
COinMS (5 comments)
America's Most Convenient Bank® refuses to serve Christians
Representatives of a well known faith-based charitable organization were refused a New Jersey bank’s notarization service by an atheist employee. After inquiring about the nature of the non-profit organization and the documents requiring......
Jody Lane (5 comments)
John Benefiel takes credit for GOP takeover of Oklahoma
Many of you know that Oklahoma has turned an unrecognizable shade of red in recent years.  Yesterday, one of the leading members of the New Apostolic Reformation all but declared that he was responsible......
Christian Dem in NC (3 comments)
John Benefiel thinks America is under curse because Egyptians dedicated North America to Baal
You may remember that Rick Perry put together his "Response" prayer rallies with the help of a slew of NAR figures.  One of them was John Benefiel, an Oklahoma City-based "apostle."  He heads up......
Christian Dem in NC (5 comments)

More Diaries...




All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments, posts, stories, and all other content are owned by the authors. Everything else 2005 Talk to Action, LLC.