Was Hitler Gay?
wilkyjr printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 11:13:06 AM EST

Add to the Hitler list his connection to being Gay.  He has been equated with just about every movement and ideology known to modern man.  At a recent church leadership conference I attended Erwin Lutzer's book on the state of the nation was offered on the book table.  I wrote earlier here about Lutzer claiming to connect the dots between Hitler and modern American culture.  Lutzer traces connections he claims all the way from current taxation to the ACLU making his case they are awfully close to Hitler.  His friend Glenn Beck has developed a cottage industry from such.   The book, Pink Swastika, is the foundation of the claim about gay Nazis.   The Daily Show ran a comedy sketch on the Pink Swastika conspiracy claim noting that no historian of any academic credit believes there is any link to such. Scott Lively, an anti-gay marriage activist with roots in Oregon, is the author of the theory.  For decades I have heard statements and claims that Hitler was a homosexual and his close aids were also gay.  Thus the entire Nazi movement has roots in gay lifestyles.  
     Scott Lively's popular book is now noted to be nothing more than a vivid stretch of Scott's imagination.  The historical accuracy is void.  The Southern Poverty Law Center even lists the book as part of hate literature.  That is a work designed to promote hatred of a group with no serious scholarship.
     The story fits amidst the shelves of other conspiracy myths that float occasionally on emails or Christian talk radio.  Other rumors that abound include the Proctor and Gamble story about the company making a secret pact with Satan.  (Many believe the Amway crowd started this one to boost sales of their pyramid marketing.)  We get the occasional Madeline Murray O'Hare story about the atheist starting a bill to take Christian radio off the air.  This is a grand feat for someone who has been dead for several years.
      A recent hoax was played on the nation from Falwell U.  Liberty University hired a seminary president by the name of Ergun Caner.  He wrote a best seller named Inside Islam.  The book propelled him to national fame and notoriety.   He was a guest expert on government panels not to mention a featured speaker at Bible conferences around the nation.  Truth was Caner had a vivid imagination. His claims to having been raised a terrorist and participant in Islam did not add up.  He was dismissed from his leadership at the campus for "self contradictory" statements.  That's a euphemistic way of saying his pen wrote big checks that his life's record could not cash.
     The top ten list of public school problems compared with a generation ago is another myth that keeps getting mileage.  It was traced by 20/20 and a Yale research group all the way to Texan Cullen Davis.  Davis was asked to reveal how he came up with such a survey that had been quoted from the Whitehouse to just about every school board election in the country.  He confessed he did not have data, just thought it might be that way.
     The President recently responded to rumors about his life by stating he did not want to walk around with a birth certificate pasted to his forehead.  Unfortunately this attitude seems to be typical across the land.  It fails to take into account that the myths and stories keep being published and pretending they do not count is not lessening the impact of the messages.


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Was Hitler Gay? | 24 comments (24 topical, 0 hidden)
Hitler, May 1927... (5.00 / 2)
According to Konrad Heiden, author of the 1944 book Der Fuehrer: Hitler's Rise To Power, in May 1927 Adolf Hitler called together the Munich S.A. and shouted,

"The clique from the Bratwurstglöckl are all fairies: Heinz, Röhm, Zentner, and the rest. Am I supposed to take accusations from such people?" ( Heiden, page 294 )

by Bruce Wilson on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 11:33:59 AM EST


research (5.00 / 2)
Bruce, sounds like Lively did some David Barton-type investigation.

by wilkyjr on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 12:07:54 PM EST

30 years ago... (5.00 / 2)
I clearly remember hearing and reading this when I was in a dominionist "denomination" 30 years ago... it was preached at least a couple of times (that Hitler was gay), and I read it several times in the "denomination's" publications.

I believed it for years, until I learned that gays were singled out for persecution too.

by ArchaeoBob on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 01:16:56 PM EST

Was he also a Satanist and Atheist by them? (5.00 / 1)
Heard it all. Truth means nothing to them only what they think, read and say that helps their Grand Mission to take over the USA an then dominate the world for their Second Coming to happen. Expect that if they do some of their factions won't like the smear the book does of one of their hidden saints and models. A fine Christian man by their warped standards. Many of them certainly liked Hitler's no nonsense style of governing. So efficient and open. They just salivate at the idea of their own blue clad religious police doing the same right here.

by Nightgaunt on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 08:38:45 PM EST
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I don't remember clearly. (5.00 / 1)
I think that there were implications that he followed some sort of strange religion.  Certainly not Christian in any way.

I remember hearing back then that he was Gay, a drug addict, and a liberal/socialist (backed by the name "National Socialism" in their arguments).  Seems to me that their arguments even suggested that he was actually a communist who even betrayed his friends in Russia (playing on the Red Scare).

There were no discussions of the military-industrial complex or destruction of the trade unions and crushing of worker's rights... like you find in reality.  

by ArchaeoBob on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 11:51:54 PM EST
Parent

Strange like the Crusaders or Inquisition? (none / 0)
Considering the way the Bible has been written an put together one can have a large variety of Christianities which the others can say isn't real by just which parts that fit together are combined and ignore those parts that don't agree. Each one tends to invalidate the others. The Nazis are one type, the Inquisition and Crusaders are another as is the variety of Dominionist sects. But many of their primary motivations are the same as are their murderous actions to get what they want and keep it.

by Nightgaunt on Tue Oct 19, 2010 at 03:06:35 PM EST
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Hitler and Ernst Rohm (5.00 / 1)
I don't know if anyone here really needs to be educated on the subject, but the source of the myth is the fact that Ernst Rohm was gay. The early Nazi Party had many colorful whackos who disagreed with each other (Hitler was Party Member #5). There were those like Goebbels who only wanted socialism for whites (like Medicare I guess), those like Goering who had connections to the recently-overthrown Kaiser's elite and merely wanted an elitist state, those like Himmler who wanted to fully restore feudalism and serfdom, and then there was Ernst Rohm............................................................. ................................................................. .... There were a lot of street toughs like Rohm creating right-wing gangs called Freikorps in 1919; many German soldiers had discovered their homosexuality in the trenches, but many more discovered that they liked being armed thugs. Rohm's faction also hated industrialization and capitalism. Their intent was to overthrow the ownership of the factories, or perhaps instead to close all the factories and force everyone to become farmers.......................................................... ................................................................. ...... All of these nuts were of use to Hitler; under his "fuehrer principle" one's loyalty was the only thing that mattered because Hitler was the sole decision-maker. Those who became a problem to him were at first thrown out of the party, but as his power grew he gained the means to eliminate his rivals, one after another.......................................................... ................................................................. ..... It didn't really matter what Rohm's platform was until Hitler came to power promising the corporations and Army that they'd be protected in his new order. Rohm's militia was a threat to both, so Hitler wiped out its entire leadership as proof of his sincerity. The survivors were subjugated to Hitler's new priority of upholding traditional institutions by loading them up with loyalists, and increasing childbirth rates to enlarge the Aryan population....................................................... ................................................................. ... So nothing remained of Rohm's economic or social radicalism. The 3rd Reich was a capitalist state with a party-run military-industrial complex. And Himmler's growing importance and Germany's occupation practices seem to show that Hitler was moving further towards neo-feudalism and neo-slavery. Why, then, should Rohm's sexual preferences have mattered?........................................................ ........................................................ (And finally, note that if Rohm's decentralized agrarian militia state had won out over Hitler's vision, there would have been no WW2 because Germany would have been too backward to invade even Poland.)

by super390 on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 01:34:48 PM EST
Hitler was a Christian and such things are verbote (5.00 / 1)
Verboten. A fundamentalist with political and military power---full plenary over everyone. It would be easier in some ways right now with the technology available.

by Nightgaunt on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 08:43:37 PM EST
Parent
Searching for a state religion (none / 0)
I think Hitler wanted to swap one kind of authoritarian religion for another, but he couldn't commit or couldn't openly say what he personally believed. He was raised Catholic, but wished he was a Prussian (who were Lutheran). While Hitler was certainly obsessed with Norse gods in his favorite entertainment, Himmler was obsessed with the Teutonic Knights, who were ostensibly Christian. Yet Himmler also had complimentary things to say about Islam's fighting spirit. These guys probably saw religion pretty much the way I do, as a tool for blind regimentation. Before we make too much out of that, consider the Founding Fathers also discussed the virtues of a "civil religion" operating alongside Christianity.

by super390 on Mon Sep 06, 2010 at 04:20:00 AM EST
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Could it be? (none / 0)
There is a PBS program about Hitler and the Holy Grail that I have videotaped...  I think that they may have started out liking the crazy things mentioned in that video because they WERE an avenue to blind regimentation, but it's my thinking that they started to believe their own propaganda- maybe fairly early on.  

When you're in power, and propaganda you put out reinforces your "right" to be in power, it probably has a strong attraction for personal acceptance, even if you know that it is based on lies.

My personal belief is that Hitler believed in some of the things he said from the beginning... which a lot of that was church-based propaganda.  It developed from there.


by ArchaeoBob on Mon Sep 06, 2010 at 10:47:06 AM EST
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Dangerous history revisionism (5.00 / 3)
If accurate history of the Nazi era was being taught the parallels to the more extreme elements of our Religious Right would be all too obvious.  That's why they have to rewrite it.

I was very concerned about the recent articles published by JTA and the Jewish Daily Forward in which they repeated discredited conspiracy theories about Hitler being partially Jewish. http://www.talk2action.org/story/2010/8/24/18554/3489/

Not only are these claims discredited, but the idea that Hitler was gay (and partially Jewish) is a vital component for some versions of the New World Order ideology that we are seeing pop up in political dialogue.  The victims must be made into the villains - otherwise they can't claim that history is a cosmic battle between good and evil, with right wing Christians always fighting on the side of the angels.  They are rewriting history to claim that Nazism was a product of the political Left.  If they were teaching history instead of conspiracy theories, it would be clear that whatever Nazism eventually became, it was a product and partner of the political Right and was marketed to Germans and as a  holy bulwark to protect Christianity from "atheistic Bolshevism."  Hitler stated in 1934, "We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."  

Nazism was viciously anti-gay and promoted what today's Right calls "family values" for Aryan Germans.  The Nazis displayed "degenerate art" supposedly slated for destruction in the Entartete Kunst exhibit, including art they claimed demeaned Christianity. Their famous book burnings included the huge archives of Magnus Hirschfield on homosexuality.


by Rachel Tabachnick on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 03:29:54 PM EST

Hitler himself thought he might have some (5.00 / 1)
So just in case, to be on the safe side he eliminated any skeletons in that closet if there were any.

by Nightgaunt on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 08:45:02 PM EST
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That was the point (none / 0)
That was the central point that I heard rather recently- that Hitler probably thought he might have some Jewish ancestors, so he eliminated part of his family (possibly to hide what he thought was his shame).  His relatives fled Germany and changed their name out of shame for his actions.  

As far as documentation of his thinking he was part Jewish... that I don't know.  They said that he DID have part of his family eliminated.

by ArchaeoBob on Mon Sep 06, 2010 at 09:57:43 AM EST
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Pink Triangle (5.00 / 2)
Years ago I read a small book titled "The Men with the Pink Triangle." It is a first person account of persecution of homosexuals in the Nazi death camps. I just checked on Amazon.com, and it is still available. As I recall, it is a chilling account of what really happened.

by MLouise on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 03:39:27 PM EST
Thanks... (5.00 / 2)
...I have not read this and will order one.  Thanks for the tip.

by Rachel Tabachnick on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 11:57:34 PM EST
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Not gay... (5.00 / 2)
It's well known that Hitler was obsessed with his half-niece Geli Raubal. His relationship with her was no doubt of a sexual nature. When she died of a gunshot wound, he went into a great depression.

He also had a long relationship with Eva Braun, whom he ultimately married hours before they died.

Those that say he was gay are just trying to smear homosexuals with the 'Hitler taint'. They are probably dealing with strong homosexual tendencies within themselves and are projecting their self hatred on to those who are openly gay... IMHO.

by COinMS on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 10:36:49 AM EST

The anti-gay agenda (5.00 / 1)
I don't think every homophobe is secretly homosexual. I think there's a very practical reason why the worshippers of inequality, power, and conquest see gays as an impediment. During the early days of Christianity there was no pope to dictate dogma, and groups like the Gnostics were running around saying that suicide was okay, that abortion was not an issue, that women should have power within the church. Homosexuality was not necessarily the issue it now is either. Why did all this change? The Christians didn't take over Rome by accident, but by the rise of leaders who wanted to take over. They needed a fast-growing army of disciplined followers. All the positions mentioned above were impediments to fast growth. They were crushed, and victory followed. Thus it's not surprising that any aggressive movement, religion or empire is biased towards multiplying the children of their supporters, sometimes at the expense of others. Hitler wasn't just killing off the undesirables, he was doing all sorts of things to increase the birth rate of desirables. All these movements are best served by patriarchy, hierarchy, heterosexuality and the reduction of women to baby-making machines. Their wombs are the barracks of our future army, you see.

by super390 on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 11:54:26 PM EST
Parent
okay (5.00 / 1)
That is logical. I'm only an armchair psychologist :^) Still, there has been a sizable percentage of RR and Conservative leaders who have been caught in homosexual behavior, while at the same time denouncing such behavior - but I do agree with your analysis.

by COinMS on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 08:30:16 AM EST
Parent

I think it's more than Gnostics. (5.00 / 1)
My reading of church history (and admittedly I am not even close to an expert) suggests that the stances on issues you assigned to Gnostics may indeed have been more of the norm.  It's been years since I've done any serious reading on the subject, but what I remember is some of the early Bishops (Clement, maybe Polycarp) struggled against fundamentalist influences and even spoke out against them and for the more liberal understanding.

There were groups that wanted authority (Rome being clearly one in that list in the books I've read)- and long conflict between the churches in different areas/groups (Rome vs Jerusalem, for instance).   Of course, just as today, the situation was complex and any attempt at description tends to be oversimplified.  There is a good article by the UU church that talks about when Christianity moved from the image of the Garden/Good Shepherd to Jesus on the cross that is well worth reading- http://www.uuworld.org/ideas/articles/107992.shtml .

It suggests that a major change occurred when Christianity was (mis)used to support Empire.

by ArchaeoBob on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 11:02:32 AM EST
Parent

I meant to add... (5.00 / 1)
that what I've read suggests that the hostility to homosexuality is a more recent thing- maybe dating to the time of the plague.    From what I've heard, the early church even had a service for blessing same-sex relationships (at least the Roman Catholic branch did).

by ArchaeoBob on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 11:11:37 AM EST
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hippie Jesus vs redneck Jesus (none / 0)
I did some reading about the Gnostics and learned that they were part of a wild theological scene in Alexandria, where all kinds of so-called Christian sects were proposing all sorts of ideas. But in reading their actual texts, I realized why the Gnostics failed and the Paulines succeeded: mass marketing. Paul understood the proles of the empire wanted simple answers. The Gnostics got bogged down with mysticism. The open, inquiring but hairbrained mind of the intellectual brought up in comfort will tend to tolerate personal freedom while spinning out multi-level higher spiritual planes full of wacky guide-beings. You know, like saucer cults. The peasants, however, just want sacred orders to beat the crap out of everyone who doesn't conform. Guess who was the best route to power in an agrarian world?

by super390 on Mon Sep 06, 2010 at 04:33:52 AM EST
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The peasants may have wanted more. (none / 0)
I don't think the peasants wanted to "beat the crap out of everyone who doesn't conform" at all.  They probably were searching for something that would give a tiny bit of comfort and meaning to their existence- something that made their suffering easier (for those who were being exploited or abused).  There also seems to be a human universal regarding religion- ALL known cultures have had a religion of some sort or another, just as all also have some form of marriage.  The situation a couple of thousand years ago also was more complicated than people realize- for instance, it was long thought that only the elites in Egypt could read and write- but recent finds suggest that reading and writing was far more common than thought. Even relatively common workmen could at least write their own names and so on (or knew the symbols for their name and what they did- and how to draw/write them).  We've found the graffitti of some of the pyramid builders... basically saying "I helped build this!" and it was evident that different people wrote the symbols- indicating it was done by the individuals.  I think this complexity extends to all of the area... there were probably peasants who were reasonably comfortable and happy with their lives, just as there were clearly peasants who were oppressed and exploited.  But religious practice/belief would have been ubiquitous, because it IS a human universal.  If the beliefs/practice helped people to make more sense out of their lives and experience- or brought some comfort to them, they would tend to follow that.  (People also tend to look to things that make everything simpler too.)

At the same time, yeah... I know people who are "comfortable" who concoct all sorts of crazy notions- like "suffering is how we know we exist", or that suffering is somehow good for you.  They've obviously not had a life of suffering or probably haven't experienced it much at all.  I also know a lot of intellectuals who are not harebrained at all... in fact, that's a bit offensive.  You see, most of the academics (highly intelligent and 'intellectual') I know struggle for treating the poor and disadvantaged/persecuted with justice and kindness.  I don't think that's harebrained.  They also are well aware of suffering (yeah, there are always exceptions to the rule) and try to alleviate it.  Most of the ideas I've heard made good sense, and were based on long thought and experience and adequately explained what we observe.

Too bad the politicians don't generally listen to these ones- only to the ones who say what they want to hear (and they're usually the exceptions).

by ArchaeoBob on Mon Sep 06, 2010 at 11:14:34 AM EST
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Christianity... (none / 0)
To make Christianity the official religion was merely politically expedient for Constantine, it gave him the support of a large and growing group of regimented true believers. It also allowed him to get rid of a few of the ancient ruling families who refused to convert. Also it was absolutely scandalous (cf. Gibbon) the way elderly (and not so elderly) Christian widows gave away whole family fortunes to the church in exchange for "eternal life". But they were the "elites" of their day and, it appears, they couldn't think any more clearly then than they do now.

by jimmyaj on Mon Sep 06, 2010 at 11:57:57 PM EST
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Hitler's Morals Praised Early On (none / 0)
"It is  reported that Chancellor Adolf Hitler gives to the temperance movement the prestige of his personal example since he neither uses intoxicants nor smokes"  ...Official Report of the Fifth Baptist World Congress.
    Goes to show some "official reports" don't always get the record straight.  

by wilkyjr on Tue Sep 07, 2010 at 08:42:32 AM EST

Was Hitler Gay? | 24 comments (24 topical, 0 hidden)

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