C. Peter Wagner's Denials About Dominionism and Demonization of Other Religions
Rachel Tabachnick printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 10:25:09 PM EST
C. Peter Wagner was quite forthcoming on many issues in his October 3 Fresh Air interview with Terry Gross. He talked openly about the New Apostolic Reformation's agenda for the movement's apostles to have authority over churches; suggested that Sarah Palin should have been anointed by leadership in private, so that it would not have created such controversy; talked about his work with Ted Haggard and claimed his prophets knew of Haggard's homosexuality in advance; and confirmed that he was present at Rick Perry's prayer event.  But Wagner downplayed the meaning of "taking dominion" over society and was dishonest about the movement's well-established demonization of other religions.  He even claimed to support religious pluralism.
This is inconsistent with years of Wagner's teaching that other religions and belief systems are demonically controlled, and that those demons must be removed from communities in order to bring about the curing of social ills and to advance the "Kingdom on earth."

Read a full transcript of the interview or link to audio. Following is a comparison of some of Wagner's claims on Fresh Air compared to his previous teaching and media.  

During the Fresh Air interview, Terry Gross asked about the movement's agenda for taking "dominion" over the "Seven Mountains."  Wagner responded,

"In terms of taking dominion, we don't - we wouldn't want to - we use the word dominion, but we wouldn't want to say that we have dominion as if we're the owners or we're the rulers of, let's say, the arts and entertainment mountain."

Following is Wagner in 2008, speaking about dominion at a NAR conference.  Note the use of the phrase "ruling as kings."

"Dominion has to do with control. Dominion has to do with rulership. Dominion has to do with authority and subduing and it relates to society. In other words, what the values are in Heaven need to be made manifest here on earth. Dominion means being the head and not the tail. Dominion means ruling as kings. It says in Revelation Chapter 1:6 that He has made us kings and priests - and check the rest of that verse; it says for dominion. So we are kings for dominion."

Wagner downplayed the movement's demonization of other religions.  Terry Gross began the interview by playing the video of Wagner claiming that Japan's economic downturn was due to the control of the nation by the Sun Goddess, which he describes as a powerful demonic principality. He described both Hinduism and Buddhism as part of the "kingdom of darkness."  Wagner then extended this explanation of the demonic control of other religions to Nepal, stating,

"An apostle, a friend of mine in Nepal, once told me that every Christian believer in Nepal that he knows of has been delivered from demons, that their former Hindu religion had implanted or the demons had gained access and that in order to become Christian believers, the demons had to be cast out."
But when the conversation turned to the U.S., suddenly Wagner was a supporter of religious pluralism.
"So therefore we would like Muslims to become Christians, but in the meantime, if they're here in America, we don't oppose them. I'm sorry that some radicals speak up strongly against having a mosque in their neighborhood, and I don't think that's patriotism. I think America needs to make room for liberty."
This makes no sense in the context of the movement's virulent statements and spiritual warfare against Islam.  Currently the NAR is  preparing for TheCall Detroit on 11/11/11, in partnership with Transformation Michigan, the Oak Initiative, and the NAR's state prayer warrior networks.  These networks are under the apostolic authority of Apostles Cindy Jacobs and John Benefiel, who are in turn in "apostolic alignment" with Peter Wagner.  
Wagner on Fresh Air,
"Well, I must say that both John Benefiel and Cindy Jacobs are very close to me. They're both aligned apostolically with me. So I am part of what they do, and they're part of what I do."
In conference calls with Transformation Michigan, John Benefiel stated emphatically that evil must not be tolerated.
"God expects us to hate what he hates and love what he loves. When we hate the idolatry that's around us and we are determine to spiritually tear down the altars to Baal, tear down those evil high places, it begins to catch on and we begin to win. But the important thing is that we cannot tolerate known evil in our society and not do anything about it."
The evil and idolatry that the movement believes that it must tear down includes freemasonry and Islam.

Demonizing Freemasonry and Islam

Another Transformation Michigan/Oak Initiative conference featured Bill Sudduth, who heads the International Society of  Deliverance Ministries that Wagner described in the Fresh Air interview as being founded by him and his wife, Doris.

"Their seven-day-a-week occupation is casting demons out of people. And they have professional expertise in this and they happen to meeting - be meeting right now. My wife is one of them. She's written a whole book called 'How to Cast Out Demons.'
PhotobucketA Transformation Michigan/Oak Initiative conference call with Bill Sudduth in April was part of the ongoing preparations for TheCall Detroit. (Graphic right: Sudduth is currently on a 50-state tour training prayer warriors to fight freemasonry.) In this call, Sudduth describes the reasons why the prayer warriors are attacking freemasonry as part of their spiritual warfare assault on Islam.  Sudduth describes the spiritual warfare.
"After the teachings we actually  do the prayer of release. There is a prayer of release for freemasonry ... but  there's also a prayer of release of Islam and the spirits behind it and we corporately break that as well.  And then we do Identificational Repentance and we have three specific categories.  We have a government official or state employee of Michigan actually repent for the state's involvement, we have a pastor repent for the churches involvement, and then we have an ex-mason or Eastern Star, someone who was personally involved in masonic repent for the damage it has done to families and then corporately we pray and we just literally pull it down over the state."

Later in the conference call, the head of Transformation Michigan, Rick Warzywak comments on the need for participants to go to the property of the mosques and Sudduth states that it is important to "take the ground" and "claim an area around the mosque." Warzywak responds,

"We go back and occupy and take the land, right?"
Sudduth answers,
Every advance in the kingdom of God is met with resistance, and the problem is the church has not resisted the advance of the ememy. By us physically going to these Masonic lodges like we did, physically going to these mosques like we’re planning and these other altars, if you will, we are advancing the kingdom and pushing back the darkness.
Warzywak and Sudduth are speaking in spiritual warfare terms, but it leaves no doubt that Islam and freemasonry are viewed as demonic and not to be tolerated. Toward the end of the conference call, the head of Transformation Michigan  explains that Lou Engle, leader of TheCall, and his team are to arrive 40 days before the event. Sudduth states,
"We are literally dropping in a Delta Force."
He adds,
"We are to be called a house of prayer.  When we had our meetings city-hopping across the state with Lou Engle last week, I have seen a phenomenal unity of the body even amongst races, and awareness of the Islamic threat that we have and the importance of praying and lifting up a house of prayer."

The Michigan state prayer leader on the call states,
"We need the harvest of the Muslim people.  We can't just sit by and let them continue the on the way they are, worshipping their false god."

Lou Engle, who leads TheCall is also a prophet in the Wagner-initiated Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders and works with Mike Bickle at the International House of Prayer in Kansas City. Engle has described the effort to legalize gay marriage in California as releasing,
"a spirit more demonic than Islam."

Photobucket Not Just Freemasonry and Islam

As previously reported on Talk2action, Wagner and his leading apostles have called for the destruction of items and artifacts of Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, and other religions and belief systems.

In his 2011 book Spiritual Warfare Strategy (an updated version of his book Confronting the Powers), Wagner describes the movement's warfare prayer group in Penang, Malaysia, targeting a statue of the Goddess of Mercy at Kek Lok Si Temple, one of the largest in Malaysia.  Wagner writes,

"Some members of our Spiritual Warfare Network in Penang did have eyes to see.  In a prayer meeting in their church, they were directed to target their prayers into the center of the island, where the temple and the statue were located.  They received a rhema word from God."
Wagner continues, claiming that after their prayers the "idol" had developed a huge crack and that tons of concrete fell to the ground. He adds,
"Subsequent efforts by the temple authorities to repair and rebuild the statue have come to naught.  Later in 1993, the statue actually caught on fire and now is an ugly, charred eyesore.  The only tourist who have made their way there in years are Christians eager to see with their own eyes the tangible results of warfare prayer agianst the attempted glorification of one of the chief demonic principalities over Malaysia."
(Actually this is a major tourist site and the burned statue has been replaced with a bronze one.)

Wagner dedicated one of his many books, Confronting the Queen of Heaven, to information about fighting a demonic principality which he claims blocks the evangelization of Roman Catholics and Muslims. Following a spiritual warfare excursion in 1997, Wagner quoted the lead prophetess, Ana Mendez.

"Ana points to some world events which occurred within two weeks after the prophetic act at the throne of the Queen of Heaven which she senses have some connection: (1) The nation of Indonesia, the largest Muslim nation in the world, caught on fire and began to burn on that very day; (2) An earthquake destroyed the Basilica of Assisi in Italy, the place where the Pope had called a meeting for the unity of all world religions; (3) Hurricane Paulina destroyed the infamous temple of "Baal-Christ" in Acapulco, Mexico; (4) Princess Diana of England died, representing the crown of England, to whom Mt. Everest was consecrated by Sir Edmund Hillary; and (5) Mother Theresa, one of the most visible advocates of exalting Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix, died in India."
Contrast this with Wagner's answers to Terry Gross in which he claims to "respect all religions."
"Well, we - yes, we respect all religions, but we also respect the freedom of exercising our religion. And part of our religion is called evangelization. It's called presenting Jesus Christ to others and persuading them to become followers of Jesus Christ and walk into the kingdom of God. So - so we'd like to maintain our right in a plural - in religious pluralism of exercising our privilege of winning other people to Christianity."
[10/16/2011: A slight correction and addition was made to the quotes from the Sudduth/Warzywak conference call conversation.]



Display:
Even Lance Wallnau, Os Hillman, and Johnny Enlow are trying to backtrack and claim that dominionism is not what it sounds like.  But of course this would mean promoting something quite different than what they've been marketing for years, which has been a mandate to "occupy," "take the land,"  "rule" and "control."

http://www.goddiscussion.com/79681/seven-mountains-leaders-clarif y-what-is-meant-by-christian-dominionism-and-how-all-citizens-of- earth-will-rejoice-when-dominion-is-accomplished/

by Rachel Tabachnick on Wed Oct 05, 2011 at 10:23:05 AM EST


Wagner ended the Fresh Air interview discussing the need for Jews to be converted to Christianity and how Messianic Jews are fulfilling that purpose. Given New Apostolic Reformation's views on Islam, I wonder what role Christian Zionism is playing in the escalating violence of the settlers on the West Bank against the Palestinians.

A number of mosques have been burned and now the violence has spread into Israel.

http://tinyurl.com/3m3glnv

by TomBishop on Wed Oct 05, 2011 at 06:30:05 PM EST


When he started the "plural society" crap, I pulled the plug. Unfortunately, that soft sell will work on a lot of folks who really don't want to believe we are in danger of becoming a theocracy.

by phatkhat on Wed Oct 05, 2011 at 08:03:45 PM EST

While C. Peter Wagner told Terry Gross that he "personally would not endorse each one of her statements and especially the statement about the Democratic Party being demonized, any more than the Republican Party is", he in fact has done just that.

Wagner's endorsement is on the back cover of Alice Patterson's 2010 book, "Bridging the Racial and Political Divide", which contains an entire section concerning the alleged "demonic structure" behind the Democratic Party.

Writes Wagner, in his endorsement--which I again emphasize is printed on the back cover of Patterson's book, "This is a penetrating, provoking, and practical book that all who have hope for reforming our society in our times, must read and absorb."

by Bruce Wilson on Thu Oct 06, 2011 at 02:12:15 AM EST


This reminds me disturbingly of the intent of our Canadian government to open an "office of religious freedom" in our Department of Foreign Affairs. Many are suspicious that our new Conservative Party's majority government, who are often motivated by an unusually (for Canadians) moralistic "Republican-like" ethos, plan for this to be a "office of Christian Evangelism in Muslim Countries". I'm not aware of any NAR or dominionist activity between Washington State and Alaska, but I know that there are international missions.

by arachne646 on Thu Oct 06, 2011 at 02:53:08 PM EST


WWW Talk To Action


Cognitive Dissonance & Dominionism Denial
There is new research on why people are averse to hearing or learning about the views of ideological opponents. Based on evaluation of five......
By Frederick Clarkson (375 comments)
Will the Air Force Do Anything To Rein In Its Dynamic Duo of Gay-Bashing, Misogynistic Bloggers?
"I always get nervous when I see female pastors/chaplains. Here is why everyone should as well: "First, women are not called to be pastors,......
By Chris Rodda (203 comments)
The Legacy of Big Oil
The media is ablaze with the upcoming publication of David Grann's book, Killers of the Flower Moon. The shocking non fiction account of the......
By wilkyjr (111 comments)
Gimme That Old Time Dominionism Denial
Over the years, I have written a great deal here and in other venues about the explicitly theocratic movement called dominionism -- which has......
By Frederick Clarkson (101 comments)
History Advisor to Members of Congress Completely Twists Jefferson's Words to Support Muslim Ban
Pseudo-historian David Barton, best known for his misquoting of our country's founders to promote the notion that America was founded as a Christian nation,......
By Chris Rodda (113 comments)
"Christian Fighter Pilot" Calls First Lesbian Air Force Academy Commandant a Liar
In a new post on his "Christian Fighter Pilot" blog titled "BGen Kristin Goodwin and the USAFA Honor Code," Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan......
By Chris Rodda (144 comments)
Catholic Right Leader Unapologetic about Call for 'Death to Liberal Professors' -- UPDATED
Today, Donald Trump appointed C-FAM Executive Vice President Lisa Correnti to the US Delegation To UN Commission On Status Of Women. (C-FAM is a......
By Frederick Clarkson (126 comments)
Controlling Information
     Yesterday I listened to Russ Limbaugh.  Rush advised listeners it would be best that they not listen to CNN,MSNBC, ABC, CBS and......
By wilkyjr (118 comments)
Is Bannon Fifth-Columning the Pope?
In December 2016 I wrote about how White House chief strategist Steve Bannon, who likes to flash his Catholic credentials when it comes to......
By Frank Cocozzelli (251 comments)
Ross Douthat's Hackery on the Seemingly Incongruous Alliance of Bannon & Burke
Conservative Catholic writer Ross Douthat has dissembled again. This time, in a February 15, 2017 New York Times op-ed titled The Trump Era's Catholic......
By Frank Cocozzelli (65 comments)
`So-Called Patriots' Attack The Rule Of Law
Every so often, right-wing commentator Pat Buchanan lurches out of the far-right fever swamp where he has resided for the past 50 years to......
By Rob Boston (161 comments)
Bad Faith from Focus on the Family
Here is one from the archives, Feb 12, 2011, that serves as a reminder of how deeply disingenuous people can be. Appeals to seek......
By Frederick Clarkson (177 comments)
The Legacy of George Wallace
"One need not accept any of those views to agree that they had appealed to real concerns of real people, not to mindless, unreasoning......
By wilkyjr (70 comments)
Betsy DeVos's Mudsill View of Public Education
My Talk to Action colleague Rachel Tabachnick has been doing yeoman's work in explaining Betsy DeVos's long-term strategy for decimating universal public education. If......
By Frank Cocozzelli (80 comments)
Prince and DeVos Families at Intersection of Radical Free Market Privatizers and Religious Right
This post from 2011 surfaces important information about President-Elect Trump's nominee for Secretary of Education, Betsy DeVos. -- FC Erik Prince, Brother of Betsy......
By Rachel Tabachnick (218 comments)

Respect for Others? or Political Correctness?
The term "political correctness" as used by Conservatives and Republicans has often puzzled me: what exactly do they mean by it? After reading Chip Berlin's piece here-- http://www.talk2action.org/story/2016/7/21/04356/9417 I thought about what he explained......
MTOLincoln (253 comments)
Fear
What I'm feeling now is fear.  I swear that it seems my nightmares are coming true with this new "president".  I'm also frustrated because so many people are not connecting all the dots! I've......
ArchaeoBob (109 comments)
"America - love it or LEAVE!"
I've been hearing that and similar sentiments fairly frequently in the last few days - far FAR more often than ever before.  Hearing about "consequences for burning the flag (actions) from Trump is chilling!......
ArchaeoBob (214 comments)
"Faked!" Meme
Keep your eyes and ears open for a possible move to try to discredit the people openly opposing Trump and the bigots, especially people who have experienced terrorism from the "Right"  (Christian Terrorism is......
ArchaeoBob (166 comments)
More aggressive proselytizing
My wife told me today of an experience she had this last week, where she was proselytized by a McDonald's employee while in the store. ......
ArchaeoBob (164 comments)
See if you recognize names on this list
This comes from the local newspaper, which was conservative before and took a hard right turn after it was sold. Hint: Sarah Palin's name is on it!  (It's also connected to Trump.) ......
ArchaeoBob (169 comments)
Unions: A Labor Day Discussion
This is a revision of an article which I posted on my personal board and also on Dailykos. I had an interesting discussion on a discussion board concerning Unions. I tried to piece it......
Xulon (180 comments)
Extremely obnoxious protesters at WitchsFest NYC: connected to NAR?
In July of this year, some extremely loud, obnoxious Christian-identified protesters showed up at WitchsFest, an annual Pagan street fair here in NYC.  Here's an account of the protest by Pagan writer Heather Greene......
Diane Vera (130 comments)
Capitalism and the Attack on the Imago Dei
I joined this site today, having been linked here by Crooksandliars' Blog Roundup. I thought I'd put up something I put up previously on my Wordpress blog and also at the DailyKos. As will......
Xulon (331 comments)
History of attitudes towards poverty and the churches.
Jesus is said to have stated that "The Poor will always be with you" and some Christians have used that to refuse to try to help the poor, because "they will always be with......
ArchaeoBob (149 comments)
Alternate economy medical treatment
Dogemperor wrote several times about the alternate economy structure that dominionists have built.  Well, it's actually made the news.  Pretty good article, although it doesn't get into how bad people could be (have been)......
ArchaeoBob (90 comments)
Evidence violence is more common than believed
Think I've been making things up about experiencing Christian Terrorism or exaggerating, or that it was an isolated incident?  I suggest you read this article (linked below in body), which is about our great......
ArchaeoBob (214 comments)

More Diaries...




All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments, posts, stories, and all other content are owned by the authors. Everything else © 2005 Talk to Action, LLC.